Probate (Premium Bonds/ISA’s/Joint Accounts)

If everything, bank accounts etc, you need to make sure when you set up a Power of Attorney, both people appoint exactly the same attorneys.

We got into trouble when dealing with relations who had everything in joint names, but appointed one attorney in common and one different. The three attorneys lived well apart from each other, but only one of us could sign cheques as each cheque had to be signed by an attorney for each person.

I was not the joint attorney, but I was the person managing most of the care and writing most of the cheques, as it was then. But I couldn't, I had to send the cheque to one of the other atorneys to counter sign. It made bill paying labourious and time wasting, so I would pay bills myself and then go through all the rigmarole of claiming the money back.

I was a joint executor 2 years ago for MIL as DH asked me to.

Probate took nearly 2 years!

The first reason is that because MIL's affairs were very simple, DH drafted a will for MIL from a kit. He had to delete many of the paragraphs as they did not apply to her and I had not noticed that he had failed to renumber the pages so there were gaps in the page numbers in the version MIL signed. If this happens, the HMCTS to whom you send the will and forms will immediately suspect that pages are missing and query it.

Secondly, he had stapled the pages together in the signed will before taking copies. HMCTS (His Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Service) don't like this either and asked one of the witnesses to MIL signing the will to complete a questionnaire stating that she had signed a complete will with no "funny business" - eg the beneficiaries standing over her shoulder.

The worst problems of all were that HMRC had been sent copies first of her will and the Inheritance Tax (IHT) forms and had confirmed to us in a letter that she would not have to pay IHT. They also write that they would contact HMRC to confirm this.

I discovered 18 months later that they had forgotten to write to HMRC and we hadn't chased them as we had foolishly believed them. HMCTS won't start dealing with probate until they receive this confirmation from HMRC and they will not chase HMRC about it either! We chased HMRC and they apologised, but that's not much help. They did however get on to it straight away.

Someone told me that we should have used a solicitor to write the will and deal with probate. That may be true about the will but I doubt if solicitors would have chased HMCTS as many times as I did and we'd probably have had to pay £50 a go whenever they did. But other people's experience may have been different.

Probate was finally granted when I called the HMCTS helpline and actually got through to someone with a brain, described all the additional things we had provided at their request to get probate sorted and asked what other things they still needed from us. The person I spoke to couldn't think of anything and said she was granting probate immediately!

I expect our file was in a large pile of files where nothing further was needed but as they could see how long the delay had been and I put them on the spot about what else was needed maybe that was why they finally granted probate.

Good luck!

Broadly, jointly-held assets do not become part of a deceased estate and cannot be directed by a Will e.g. a marital home owned as joint tenants, money in joint accounts and any goods and chattels you regard as jointly-owned. Those all pass to the survivor under Right of Survivorship.

As I think you have figured out, Premium Bonds and ISAs cannot be jointly-owned or pass under RoS. Instead, the cash value forms part of the estate.

The problem arises in that while Probate is not always required for a small estate there is no set limit for what a small estate is. Financial institutions set their own limits for the threshold where they will want to see Grant of Probate before releasing assets. This may be the based on the amount held in the account with the instition or the total amount of the estate. These pages from Co-op Legal Service may help:

tinyurl.com/pcv6xuwu

tinyurl.com/ypnc5b2x

Dont be afraid to open these. I’ve just shortened them as the original Co-op links are seven lines long!

Note the disclaimer: Please note that this list should be used as a guideline only and not relied upon as fact. We believe these thresholds to be correct at the time of publishing, but these are subject to change.

I suppose I was really wondering if I/we just put everything in a joint names account, then I am presuming there would be no need to apply for Probate. Thanks for everyones input, I’ll research this more fully.

I also did probate myself (for my mum) - it was a while ago but only took a few weeks.

A joint bank account is good as is a main account credit card for each person. An added name to a credit card is void if the main account holder deceases. Quick access to money is needed as soon as a person deceases. Copies of death certificates and wills also copies of probate as soon as that is passed

I also did probate myself. It was very useful to already have financial details and values of everything. The sooner probate can be done, the better. I welcomed the work, which I finished before the funeral. I had to swear an oath and probate was granted about 6 weeks after I sent the forms in

You do not need probate if the estate is less than £5,000, and if the deceased person's estate is very simple - current bank account and a savings account, some banks only require to see probate documents of the estate if is under £50,000. They will just want to see the death cetificate and, possibly, the will, if ther is one.

Age UK has a lot of useful Factsheets on every aspect of what to do after someone dies. www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/what-is-probate/

Lovetopaint There’s no fee if the estate is £5,000 or less.
If the value of the estate is over £5,000, the application fee is £300.

There is also a possibility of help with probate fees if you are low income.

I don’t believe premium bonds are allowed in joint names.

We have everything in joint savings except for some premium bonds bought many years ago and a small amount of shares which were given to me again years ago when the Woolwich changed to a bank. The thinking is that we have enough to think about when one of us is left on our own without the stress of anything we don’t need to have. Also probate isn’t free.

I completed Probate for DH. Some banks will pay out on sight of the death certificate but for NS&I I needed Probate.

It was easy to scan and then email copies of the death certificate, Will, My ID, and Grant of Probate. Very little was sent by post. It took me a few months to gather all the info I needed for Probate figures, as DH had not made things easy for me( I am sure he thought he was immortal!), and there was a bit of a backlog but Probate took about 11 weeks. I think they have caught up now.
Don’t let Probate govern where you put your savings, is my take on this.

As I see it, the remaining spouse only needs probate if the deceased had savings/investments, etc in their own name. We always had joint bank accounts, but when DH was first diagnosed and already retired, over the 5 years of his treatment, he transferred his ISAs to me, leaving himself enough, should something happen to me meanwhile.
After he died, because of DD2’s circumstances (both DDs were executors of his will) Virgin paid out his remaining ISA to me on production of a copy of his last will (certified by our solicitor) and death certificate.
I sold his vehicle to webuyanycar and they were happy enough to accept that same paperwork too.

Our FA sorted out the pensions as agreed and hounded me to do POA’s after DH’s death, which I have done.

There were GNs here who said Probate had taken well over a year, but I think they’ve caught up a bit now.