Truancy penalties - should they be tougher?

anagram - I know this will raise some hackles, but I can't help thinking that the standard of education among teachers has declined, certainly in literacy. The spelling of some of my daughter's teachers, and now my granddaughters', leaves a lot to be desired. No one in education seems to think that spelling and grammar are important any more.

anagram, i teach. and i'm grateful for any help with spelling, punctuation and grammar. that's one of the reasons i'm sticking with gransnet

Carol, I agree in researching various branches of my family tree, I was lucky enough to obtain copies of letters written by various ancestors in the 19th century. The grammar and the cursive writing certainly impressed me, given that these people would have been in classes with 50 or more children, and would have left full time education well before 16. Often when you see the written outpourings of today's teenagers, sadly attached to flowers when there has been something like a fatal accident, they write like little children with big round baby writing, incorrect spelling, slang and text talk.

nelliedeane, love and hugs from a stranger.

in 1993, when i started teaching, my head of department said 'they won't stop truancy until they stop the child benefit! pay child benefit if they come to school, and they'll all be in every day!'

its taken the government a while to catch up.

No hackles raised Anagram, but I can assure you that your are wrong about teachers not caring. Kids just do not read anymore, and spend much time on computers and phones, texting in a phonetic way- and it is a very hard battle to win. The same is happening all over the world, and not just in the UK.

I know this will raise some hackles, but I can't help thinking that the standard of education among teachers has declined, certainly in literacy. The spelling of some of my daughter's teachers, and now my granddaughters', leaves a lot to be desired. No one in education seems to think that spelling and grammar are important any more.

Regarding reading standards these days, I have a set of books that were presented to my grandmother nearly 100 years ago, for each of the 8 years that she achieved 100% attendance. She got a medal each year, too. I have read all these books, and looked at them again a few days ago. They are quite complex novels with sophisticated language that children of 6 to 11 years would struggle with nowadays. All seem to be aimed at 12 years and above - she left school at 13 - yet each book was presented to her from the age of 6. Perhaps they were given to her to build up a collection for when she was older - I never asked her.

I agree goldengirl, and pensions in large parts of the private sector are lagging behind those in the public sector.

Teachers don't exactly set a good example when they go on strike in term time! And they have more holidays than most businesses - certainly small businesses.

Middle class parents are taken to court. Absentdaughter underwent an appalling (for her and for me) adolescence which first manifested itself by her running away at the age of twelve and refusing to go to school. She had been thrilled to gain a place at one of London's best girls' schools where she had been doing very well. I got in touch with Social Services when I couldn't persuade her to go back to school. The mad woman (Educational Social Worker) assigned to the case seemed to think everything was my fault. Whenever anything happened, say the house being wrecked, she would ask me "What did you do?" She also suggested that I should ask a friend with a car - I don't drive - to come round in the morning and manhandle absentdaughter into his car with my help. I refused. Eventually, I was taken to court. This mad woman's final comment there was "Miss absent spoke so quickly that I couldn't understand what she was saying." I asked for a new Educational Social Worker to be assigned who proved to be a more sympathetic and more intelligent (not difficult) person.

Hello Mamie in what respect do you think there have been huge improvements in education in the last 20 years? I have read numerous articles that suggest that there are thousands of children leaving primary school virtually illiterate and the UK has slipped down the world league tables in reading, maths and science. Many employers are expressing the view that many of our young are virtually un-employable, including graduates. I suspect teachers and schools are celebrated in France because they are much better than here. Sorry I don't mean to be contentious but that's my opinion.

Not very often. I feel enormous sympathy for today's teachers - so much is expected of them and they get blamed for all of society's ills in some quarters.
I think there is a big difference in the odd week off for a family holiday, which may be the only time available because of work commitments, etc. and persistent truanting, either with or without the parents' knowledge. The latter needs some investigating to see why the pupil is so disaffected.

Teachers go on strike here too, don't they?

Yep, it is complicated, Mamie, and I agree with your comments, particularly with the concept of celebrating education. I sometimes wonder if that's a lack of 'top down' thinking.

No it isn't rocket science, but it is complicated. I actually think one very major factor is the fact that the government and the press are always blaming schools rather than supporting them. Despite what people say there have been huge improvements in the last twenty years and standards have risen, especially in primary. There are vocational courses and modern apprenticeships, but we never hear about them and the current government clearly doesn't value technical and vocational education. It is easy for pupils to think that schools is not important and I think this attitude is shared by some parents. Of course there are some problems with "bullying and boring lessons", but it not the whole story by any means. Here in France the press actually celebrates schools, teachers and pupils even though there are plenty of things wrong with French schools (and the teachers really do go on strike).

Instead of slapping a punitive tax on the parents of truanting children, I would like to see some concerted effort by the government to look at, and behind, the ' why ' of truanting children, whatever social strata they are seen to belong to.

Strewth, it's not rocket science!

One could say that allowing kids too much time off school is discriminatory, as it can allow them to fall behind, and through the net, especially kids with learning difficulties, and especially at crucial times. Sadly, not all parents are sensible (: - irrespective of social class. We had kids at my school regularly missing school for hairdressers appointments, shopping trips, and also to look after younger sibblings on a regular basis, etc. It can be heart breaking for staff who spend a lot of time outside school hours often to help kids catch up and keep afloat, and then see them fail due to time off school at crucial times.
Agree though that support is better than fines, in most cases- but some families can be very hard to support, and the kids pay the price.

Why is it that the only solution to any social ill that this Government seems to come up with is to cut benefits? Children stay away from school for any number of reasons ranging from bullying to boring lessons. Sadly it's a fact that some people in society can cope with virtually anything thrown at them while others needs help. And that's not a class or income issue.
Truancy needs a lot more carrot than stick. Smaller classes, specialised teaching, how to be a plumber rather than how to pass exams that will get a school to the top of a league table etc.
Yet what has this Government done? Slashed EMA for teenagers, cut Sure Start centres for young children and slagged off teachers while coming up with another set of guidelines for schools to follow.
Personally I would not let Michael Gove run a school crossing patrol never mind a country's education system.
Education is a country's future whether it's teaching children to be nuclear scientists or electricans. When did the internet last fix a leaking tap?
And Nellie you are doing a great job. Hang in there.

Jacey very sensible

The thing is that there is lots of evidence that tells us that persistent truants and pupils with poor attendance for other reasons do less well at school. Many of the schools I worked with had put huge efforts into keeping the children in school and it did make a difference. I am not talking about individual cases of people taking the children off on one holiday (educational or not) but the evidence from large numbers of pupils. I think most schools work very hard to keep the pupils there (remember Educating Essex?) and they deserve a bit more support and a bit less criticism.
Clearly I am not talking about what happened to you Nellie - I am so sorry you had a bad experience at such a difficult time.

That should have been ...ways to support parents and/or children

Sorry it was such a long post

Well done nelliedeane ...such a traumatic time for you and your gd

Unfortunately 'a one size fits all' attitude to truancy is not feasible...different ages of children ...different family circumstances. BUT ...yes taking children out of school for a fortnights holiday can and does disrupt learning. HOWEVER ...finances, parental work commitments ...means it does have to happen if the family are to get any quality time together. And NO ...I'm not an advocate of setting children work to take away so they can keep up ...what is lost is lost...what they gain from the holiday remained with them.

Actually ...I don't think all the education changes made since we or our children were at school have made any difference to the number of children leaving school either literate or numerate... our grandchildren.

Those of us with families in rural areas ...were always out of school during harvest time ...and yes this did go on up until the early 1950s. There has always been truancy ...for whatever reason ...I actually do wonder if (based on percentage) it is now worse or better??

The only truancy I think we should currently be focussing on ...is that which parents are unaware. [stick neck out] emocion . Instead of punative measures ...ways to support children and/or children should be sought.

Think much of this misconception has to do with the government still not grasping the concept of average ...as in average ability ...the middle!! The number of higher achievers being the same as the number of lower achievers! [teaching granny to suck eggs] emocion

Personally ...I would prefer all children to leave school with a love of life, an understanding of emotional health and well-being and a sense of citizenship...academic achievements should be the icing on the cake not the whole cake!!

Nellie xxxxxx

Nellie I am so sorry you lost your daughter You are obviously doing a terrific job bringing up your gd, good for you

I repeat, Flickety - I was just quoting. I don't use class labels.

The term 'middle class' particularly where parents are involved is becoming a pejorative word suggesting a special interest group demanding special privileges. Why cannot we just say that following pressure or representations from parents and leave out the adjectives? Many of the changes made to government policies by parent demand benefit children from all backgrounds.

Iresponsible and responsible parents exist in every strata of society and I cannot see how stopping child benefit will have any effect on truancy. Irresponsible parents will just muddle through and those whose children are missing school because of family trauma will have just another burden piled upon them. The problem should be picked up and dealt with by family interventions as soon as a child begins to have unexplained absences, usually in primary school. Parents who still persistently do not get children to school may need more exacting interventions but I cannot see that stopping child beneft will solve anything.