They're changing (white) guards at Buckingham Palace - embarrassing spectacle!

Could height have something to do with it?

The last time I was outside BH the guards were all pale brown! I asked a policeman if they were gurkhas and he said they weren't and told me what they were but I can't remember. Apparently sometimes they have guest commonwealth guards.

I do not believe there is any bias against any race in the forces and don't think they should be positively discriminating. They should choose the best candidates at for each and every intake.

As you say, Alison, there are times when visiting commonwealth regiments are invited to mount a guard at Buckingham Palace. There are (or at least there always were) height restrictions in the Guards regiments; applicants who were too short would be weaned out at the recruiting stage, and, like you, I don't like to believe that there is positive discrimination in the recruiting policy of any British regiment or corps. I understand that there are non-white officers in both the Guards regiments and the Household Cavalry, as well as other ranks. They are there on merit (you don't get into Sandhurst on anything other than merit these days - they want the best, whatever the colour of their skin, and they get them). The training for infantry regiments such as the Guards has always been very physically and mentally rigorous. They have a reputation to uphold. I imagine that the drop out rate at the training stage is high, and that this applies to both white and non-white recruits. There are those on here who appear to have become far too exercised over this matter. I'm sure that if you stood outside Buck House every day for a month and took in every guard change, you would probably see that skin colours are proportionally represented! I'm sure HMQ is not a bit bothered what colour the guardsmen who inhabit her sentry boxes are.

That sounds eminently sensible Artygran. perhaps the anomoly was something as simple as coinidence that there were only white faces on the day they were scrutinsed. Maybe checking on another day would show several ethnic minority guards on duty?

Just a thought. It wouldn't happen to have been a Friday, or during Eid or Ramadan, when there were no ethnic minority guards, would it?

no it was this week on wednesday. And all the photos on the internet tell the same tale. - just google "changing the guards at buckingham palace images"
trooping the colour pictures tell the same story when it comes to red coats and bearskins.
artygran excuse me? "There are those on here who appear to have become far too exercised over this matter." We can get exercised about anything we like as long as we do it in an appropriate manner. I had never been there before. There were thousands of tourists from all over the world. And what I saw made me curl up with embarrassment.
pogs - i think there are many black people in this country that use the term "black" themselves and do not see it as an insult or offensive in any way.
I am not denying that there are lots of people from ethnic minorities in the forces - just suggesting that this particular regiment, which seems to be the most high profile when it comes to tourism, does not seem to be making any progress in this area.

I was going to make the point myself that the term 'black' seems to cover a multitude of races/skin colours/ethnicities these days

Yep, they're definitely white Jess! I've exhausted all the possible explanations I can think of...........

I've sent them an email, enquiring how many of their palace guards are from black and ethnic communities as representative of our society.

www.changing-the-guard.com/contact-thank-you.html

whenim
Although there is a picture on the official Royal website that bucks the trend. He's on it!

That's the same man - Captain Kuku, the first black officer in the guards - he is the son of a Nigerian chief, educated at Harrow and a friend of Prince William. This was taken when he was appointed in 2007.

I find it hard to imagine why anyone would "curl up with embarrassment" at not seeing a non-white face on parade. Do you curl up with embarrassment when you don't see a non-white policeman around every corner? I can't remember the last time I saw one! I shouldn't think you'd give it a second thought. Perhaps you'd be better focussing your attention on that.

I can certainly think of a few times when I have felt ashamed or uncomfortable when imagining how the rest of the world sees us, and I guess a tourist situation would be one where we would think about how foreign visitors are looking at how we present ourselves.

Other times, I have been distinctly smug about how we appear!

Well, they have black officers, or at least one.

William's passing out

whenim ,
....< ashamed or uncomfortable......> No need for that.
Compared to the Rest Of The World , this Country is a Haven for any Race , Colour or Creed.

I can think of examples where we don't compare as well as we like to think Joanna

whenim ,
I said Haven, not Paradise....

My son knew of someone who was in the regiment about 15 years ago who reported he was the only black face because all the others had been bullied until they left. But haven't times changed?

That's not so long ago, in recruitment terms. Especially if blacks and other minorities see an all-white contingent - why would they apply? Some positive outreach is needed here.

It is, indeed, embarrassing that such a national symbol is (virtually) all white. The Changing of the Guard is a typical granny-day outing. My young DGC, born & bred in London, are mixed-race. I'm glad you mentioned this, I won't be suggesting it to them.

Just to throw a spanner in the works if you go to the India/Pakistan border ceremony at around 1700 every day, you will see some very tall Indians, I think they must be selected especially for this role. It is an amazing sight, such a bravura display and so much patriotism. About 5000 people go every time.

ljny, I think it is a terrible shame that you are opting out of taking your grandchildren to see the changing of the guard. That sounds to me like cutting off your nose to spite your face. These small military traditions are part of our heritage and who knows how long we may have them to show to our GC. How do you think that all coloured guardsmen and coloured servicemen in general would feel if they thought that the regimental traditions they are so burstingly proud of were being boycotted just because of something which, I do feel, has been blown out of all proportion here? Our heritage and history belongs to all our grandchildren, whatever their ethnicity. We are watering it all down at a rate of knots as it is. Take them and let them enjoy it, for heavens sake.

I'm avoiding commenting on this some what heated disscussion, but it did make me curious.
So I did look at Google images and found this without too much trouble. It's from this years parade. [[ http://www.contactmusic.com/photo/atmosphere-2012-trooping-the-colour-ceremony-at-the-horse-guards_3947010]]

I can vouch for the fact that Sandhurst has a mixed ethnic intake of cadets. In fact if I remeber rightly last years top cadet was a non-white. Also the permanent staff has a large Gurka contingent plus other minorities.

I've had an initial reply to my email about the guards, and may hear again in a few days. (Note that all the photos people have seen on the website are old ones):

Hi Carol,

That is an interesting question to which I do not have an instant answer.

Although I know there are Guards from ethnic minorities I have never been asked how many.

Please give me a few days to look through our photo library and to do a little research, then hopefully I find an answer for you.

You may also like to post on our Facebook page to ask if visitor have taken photos of the soldiers you were looking for during recent months as many of the one we use on the website are quite old.

Regards

Mike

Recent photos uploaded on to Facebook. The 'Mike' who wrote back to me is the editor of the website:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=300876203257533&set=a.300872813257872.86207.129518557059966&type=3&theater

I have received a further email from Mike, Editor of Facebook website, Trooping The Colour:
(it doesn't clarify whether any of the guards seen on the day referred to by Jess we from ethnic minorities, and only points me to a video of last year's T the C, which can be accessed via Facebook):

Hi Carol,

Following on from our earlier e-mails the statistics I have been able to access show that approximately 5 % of the army is currently from ethnic minorities.

Ethnicity by regiment is not so easy to find as there is no distinction given between soldiers on the strength of a regiment.

One of the things I was reminded of while looking for an answer to your questions was that all Guardsmen, when they first finish their basic training go on ceremonial duties before joining a battalion, without exception.

What I think best reflects the soldier is a soldier philosophy, I remember from my own time in the army, is last years ‘Trooping the Colour’ which shows the faces of the soldiers on parade were not all white. Particular things I noted were that the Life Guards, (the most senior regiment in the army), escorting the Queen comprised of two soldiers from South Africa and one from Ghana and excuse the pun but one of the soldiers escorting the Scots Guards Colours was coloured.

Sorry the video is a bit long but it does provide a visual answer rather than simply quoting statistics. Some of the photos attached are copyright and cannot be reproduced but hopefully illustrate the answers I have been able to find.

Regards

Mike