For Newsnight: should we end universal benefits for better off pensioners?

Thanks.

Butter, look at the DWP website and look for Winter Fuel Allowance.

I will pm you.

gn Can you tell me more about the recent changes to the Winter Fuel Allowance.? I haven't heard about that and wonder if I might be eligible.

Oh, and perhaps you should check your facts - you don't get Winter Fuel Allowance unless you were eligible before you left England, although that has recently been changed.

I have a sneaking feeling that somebody is on a wind-up mission - what a good job WE are such calm, reasonable, mature adults! It is probably not wise to take such a blunderbuss approach to criticism as I am not quite able to follow who are meant to be the targets!
Deserving - I had a poverty-stricken childhood in post-war Salford, left school at 15, returned to education at 27, got a degree and had a good career teaching children with learning difficulties. My husband also worked hard to get promotion in the computer industry so we were able to give our two children all the things we had not had ourselves. We paid quite a lot of tax and never needed to ask for benefits, other than Child Benefit. I did some voluntary work with the Dyslexia Association, the Adult Literacy Scheme and also served on the committees of the guides, PTA and riding club (yes, my daughters had horses).
I moved to France because I like to experience different places and cultures, the climate suited my arthritis and it has enabled me to travel widely in Europe.
I would be really interested to know exactly what it is about my life that makes you sound so bitter.

What makes you assume we never got family allowance, or claimed job seekers' allowance, deserving? I certainly have done (although it's now Child Benefit). We're not ancient, you know.....

deserving If you think we are a lot of "little old ladies" and "turkeys" then I suggest you leave us alone and join some other forum!

Oh, I forgot ! Musn't forget to grin!

deserving: 'A list of letters from little old ladies all agreeing with each other is not very interesting' Surely you can't be referring to Gransnetters??

Patricia,
You miss my point entirely,I am in favour of everyone getting what they have contributed to, the only comment I originally made was that I didn't agree that the winter fuel allowance should be paid to those that are now foreigners.
This benefit has probably been introduced after many of them had already departed to other climes.Remember we don't only have ex-pats in Europe we have them sweating in Australia, South Africa,all over in fact.
Remember also that we always have exceptions to the rules, almost anything anyone has already said will have relevance to someone or something.In fact if you go back to page one, and consider the subject that is under discussion you will notice how it has gradually become 'personal, anyone having a slight difference of opinion, although it should be considered,is being marginalised, by a clique, Known as WE, granted the term is not directly an apt description, as they are only together in hyperspace.Nevertheless,they will attempt to exert undue influence on the direction the site develops.
Bett you don't have to use your pass, pay if it makes you feel better.I do however assume you have paid your dues and are entitled to it? You probably never got family allowance, for two or three children, or for that matter job seekers allowance, and assuming (we have to do a lot of this as peoples circumstances are varied) you are not an heiress and have not had a large inheritance,or won the pools, you had to make do, and managed somehow. It may get votes but it doesn't help to cosset people, when a struggle would make them better people.How did your parents bring you up?Were they rich, landed, as they say, or did they have to make do and mend, without the benefit of benefits? When we didn't have large flat screen TV's and all the other things that are now regarded as essentials, we knew that real essentials were food, rent,and working to provide the same.
Don't tell me there are no jobs available, our eastern europeans can find them. The thing that their isn't, is a work ethic, and much pride. When benefits are such that going to work means a fall in "pay" then the benefits are to much. When care for the elderly, those that have worked and for their votes have been promised certain things, is threatened, then we do need to be ashamed.Take what you are entitled to,no more no less,if you don't want it give it to charity, your poor neighbours, your children, grandchildren. Don't ask the government to means test it, it will cost more than it saves. They will make a hash of it, another department will be formed to deal with it. Nearly everyone writing has opinions on what THEY need , and what they are prepared to give up, thats fine, give away what YOU don't need,don't postulate for others, my mistake was to say that the winter fuel allowance should not be paid to expats.(I still feel this ) but I should not postulate for others.
I feel that some of you turkeys would vote for christmas, then nip abroad.

Patricia I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet, you seem to exactly echo what I have said earlier on this thread.

deserving I totally disagree with you about ex-pats, they have paid in just the same as everyone else and have the right to live and spend their pensions wherever they want to. I will stay in the UK but that's my choice. It is a very poor state of afairs when one person dictates to another how to spend their own money which they have worked for.

getting a little fraught in Spain and Greece at the moment, could be better coming back and buying a scarf
The ones I feel for most are those whose health was damaged in the pits and factories and are suffering on insufficient benefits unable to go to a better clime, that is not to say that all the expats are the wealthy.
We are not all baby boomers, surely some must remember when you had to pay the DR two and sixpence to visit him, and get the efficacious bottle of brown tonic? When benefits were all but non-existent, unless you counted the handouts that may have been available from the parish worthies. Always assuming you were acceptable.The only people in France in those days were fighting for our existence, what would they think now? What had they fought for? Lets here from those who know, how did we manage then? I do not advocate a return to those arduous days but only indicate the change, hard fought for benefits that some ,who do not need all the benefits, would deprive others of.or at least subject them to means testing (at a greater cost than the benefits).Be you a millionaire or a peasant if you have contributed you deserve the benefit. If you have a guilt about receiving any benefit, dispose of it as you think fit, leaving it for the government to use will probably cost twice as much as the benefit is worth.
Take the Olympics given to us ,no doubt, hoping it will bankrupt us.The millions it is costing would cover benefits for many years to come, along with a saving made by ending illegal wars,we could be on easy street. Who fancies a rocket launcher on their roof? Why are we having to expect soldiers to provide protection, when many of them should be on leave, having just returned from abroad (not France) others with their p45's in their back pocket? The reason is that millions have been wasted, yet again, on a security firm that is incapable of fulfilling it's contract. What use is a rocket launcher? The terrorists don't particularly care if they actually crash on the stadium, to be shot down and crash anywhere where there are many people, a densely populated area is enough. Yet another waste of money.
Hope this is up to the standard, and courtesy expected from OUR members, by whoever WE are. A list of letters from little old ladies all agreeing with each other is not very interesting, a little bit of the devils advocate is what is required, Do WE agree?

When the free bus pass came in, I thought,''Thats going a bit to far'' I would like to see the parents of 2/3 children get help with buses. When I am on the bus,free, and see mothers going to do the shopping with two or three children paying out very expensive fares, I feel guilty.
Re Winter fuel money, great,, But rather a lot dont you think?.
Opposite my flat is rather a nice couple, with a lovely baby about six months, I see them checking their meter most days, they worry about the amount they have to pay to keep the place warm, not for them, for the baby.
Growing old is not a punishment, more of a reward, there is only one other option. Elizabeth,,, aged eighty five.

I had the same thought. I gather living in the south of France is much more expensive, but, then I wouldn't need to keep going on cruises to get some sun! But there again there's the GDD!

I seriously thought about buying a wee house in the south of France but then the GC all came along and I didn't want to be too far from them. Feeling as I do now, I wonder if I made the right decision! Why should anyone feel in the least bit guilty?

What's wrong with living elsewhere in Europe, deserving? Please do not assume that living elsewhere equates with 'playing the system.' i know quite a few elderly people who moved to Spain and Greece to enable them to stay well, and they have. Hardly playing the system when they do not now keep getting bronchitis or suffer with fybromyalgia like they did here, and are not having the medical treatment they needed as offten as before they moved.

I will shortly be an ex-pat for most of the time but will still be contributing tax to UK from my pension as it is deemed a govt one.

Please stop sniping at the expats. We have a good group on GN. We like to be pleasant. It is their choice and given this weather I'm tempted to join them!

Nice to hear some local comments, thought for a while that everyone on the site had fled the country. Don't mention Mr Carr and his arrangements to avoid "things" we seem to have a few, that initially I didn't realise had deserted, but you seem to know how to play the system, and now have a vehicle to pass on your info to the like minded.
Universal benefits for those that remain and contribute, (not only a minimum of tax) those that vote, that purchase, that keep open the local shops, that man the charity shops, that distribute the meals on wheels, and all the other things you can hardly do from europe.

When OH and I reached 60 it was within a couple of months of each other so we have always had ours split - initially as I was the only one of us receiving the State Pension mine was paid into the bank the same as the pension and he had his sent as a cheque. When he reached 65 his was also then paid into the bank.

I do think though that we should have the opportunity to be taxed together - in our case one of us has some of the tax allowance over and the other pays tax - the burden would be a bit less if we could join forces. I do believe you could opt for that some years ago.

apologies anagram I did not know that being a single pensioner household.
just out of interest could you get all of it when you hit pension age instead of him or is it whoever has first dibs (reaches pension age) on the amount?

it is a very valuable 'help' for single pensioner households who are amongst the poorest but not quite on the 'poverty line'

The winter fuel allowance can be split already, if you choose, mollie65.
My OH has been receiving it for a few years now, and as I am about to qualify for my pension they've written to ask whether I want half paid to me!

agree with lots that PatriciaPT says
BUT
how do you average bus pass use for those people where there is one bus a day in each direction - or none at all - it would be better to charge for the pass (work it in the same way that the senior railcard does)
also the winter fuel payment is not an individual benefit so would have to be split if there is a pensioner couple - ditto the free TV licence.

answers on a postcard
and I still say this government is rapidly losing my support.

Well said, PatriciaPT! Some sound sense there.

Seems to me there are good reasons for Bus Passes and the like - on the whole, people are less likely to sit around moping at home if they can go out on the bus free, and moping at home is not good for anyone, let alone elderly people. I thought that was one of the reasons for it. On the other hand, some people may actually walk less because the bus is free - that's not so healthy.

As for the Winter Fuel allowance I agree some of us don't need it but for goodness sake let's give it to a responsible charity rather than letting the inefficient money-wasting government (they all seem to be like this whatever their colour) get their mitts on it.
Surely it'd be crazy to stop free precriptions because some people would then not get their prescriptions at all with a consequent decline in health which might end up costing more than the prescriptions. (On the other hand, that could be a good thing since so many prescribed drugs seem to do more harm than good!)

And as has already been said, means testing would probably be more expensive than the benefits; if they really want to take these things away from us they'd do better to do it via the tax system - could set a sort of 'average use' amount for the bus pass and count that as part of the person's income.

You will correctly deduce from this that I am ambivalent and confused! I don't suppose I'm alone.