'The thug in police uniform'. (Daily Mail today)

AmeliaAnn and AnneMaria are possibly the same person. It won't be the first time someone has joined a forum and taken a 'mate' along as back up in case the natives are hostile which, I think some have been today. It's not easy to jump in when you are a stranger and I also don't think that new posters should feel that they have to announce themselves if they don't want to.

It is correct that legally the trial could only have been conducted on what happened at this event. Evidence on the way the policeman had been moved sideways on other occasions after other "incidents" is not relevant.

Bu now that his past history is revealed, it seems to me quite right that we should be horrified that he was allowed back into a position where his "red mist" under stress could cause him to strike out at someone who was just blundering about and getting in the way. The man's alcoholism does not justify knocking him down, if it did, no-one would be safe.

The cotrast of his family's reaction to his death and their treatment of him when he was "thrown out" is interesting, to say the least, but the many relatives of hopeless alcoholics who have been forced to disassociate themselves from them will understand how there comes a point when it is no longer possible to help them. Having them casually killed must still be a shock for them.

I totally reject any suggestion that I have been hostile. I simply expressed the view that their opinion of the outcome of this trial was totally wrong. I could not possibly have said anything else, feeling as strongly as I do about this brutal police man and the way he has been allowed to bamboozle his way back into public service.
It would have been strange of me to say 'Welcome' as I did not know they were newcomers until I noticed the coincidence of their posting such similar views and decided to look them up. It would also be insincere of me to pretend that I did not regard their views as repugnant to all right thinking people. If that makes me 'not a nice person', so be it.

Well said, Elegran. I agree with all your points.

This man is just a thug in uniform but then hasn't the Met always had a reputation for that. When they were brought up North to sort out the miners that's exactly what they intended to do. A local officer told me that even other police officers was shocked by what they saw and heard. He said Met officers would target shop stewards, charge the crowd to grab him and break his fingers. Any complaints...well fingers are easily broken in scrums.

I know this will be a generalisation and there will be lots of law abiding committed officers in the Met but it shows how the force still needs to put it's house in order.

Elegran - your remark about alcoholics is so relevant and the same goes for other addicts. Many families try over and over again to support them, but in the end they have to cut them off to protect themselves. This does not mean that they stop loving them, only that sometimes you have to recognise that you cannot help and have to use 'tough love'.
I think it is deplorable to cast aspersions on this family without knowing the circumstances and their possible estrangement in no way validates what this violent bully did.

I should add that my temper is not frayed and I don't suffer from 'red mist mode'. If anything 'not nice' has been posted on this thread, it is the comments about Mr. Tomlinson's family.

Yes, I agree with what has been said about the family. I know of a case where Alanon told the family to force the alcoholic out of the house, for their own protection but also to make them face up to what they were doing to themselves.

Greatnan...arm around your shoulder.

Wow! What a lovely warm welcome for the new posters!! Quite sure theywill be rushing to post again after that experience.

Grannybug Well done! May I take this opportunity to welcome all newcomers. I hope that they will be as happy as I am to be a member of the elite GN club.

There are always two sides to every story....interesting about the miners strike...I had a cousin who was in the Lancs police sent to the picket lines in Yorkshire. I remember him telling us that some of the women scuffling on the picket lines had used sanitary towels attached to their coats!! Anyone who has had to deal with the public will tell you they can be foul!

I am astonished at some of the posts against me on here because I expressed an opinion which didn't seem to fit with the majority. As nannym said, I shall not be rushing to post on here again in a hurry. Incidentally I am not a newcomer, nor do I know the other poster who seemed to have an alternative opinion too.

I feel sorry forthe jury who must have felt they had been duped when they learnt of his previous record.

I am really sad amel..I am new to Gransnet & I am enjoying it very much...PLEASE dont be put off contributing, from what I can see there are quite a few who agree with you, there will always be people who get unpleasant when you give an opinion they dont agree with...I am pationate about free speech..sounds corny but many, many people died for free speech...DONT GO!

Thank you pammygran.

AmeliaAnn, it was your totally unjustified slur on Mr. Tomlinson's family to which many of us objected. Otherwise, most of us would simply have concluded that you were a strong supporter of the police, possibly an officer yourself or related to one, and that we thought that in this case you were wrong.
I hope everyone who made unpleasant comments about the family will now withdraw them, or perhaps give us the grounds upon which they made them.

I'm also asking you to stay ameliaanne not all of us are overbearing when someone has a different opinion. Have some and welcome!!

ameliaAnne I took your defence of the police as exactly that - they come in for a lot of undeserved brickbats for taking on things that the general public avoid getting involved with. In this case I think the officer involved did deserve a brickbat, but was saved by his past attitude (which seems to be built-in) not being mentioned in court. Leopards and spots come to mind.

I do think, though, that you came in rather heavily against Mr Tomlinson and his family, none of whom deserved what happened, however imperfect they may have been. Others reacted to that by wondering aloud whether you had an alternative agenda for blaming them and not the police officer.

There have been some cases in the past of people misusing Gransnet for bad purposes. Please do not be held back from posting by the reactions of those who used "attack is the best method of defence" to deter what appeared to them a possible repeat of that.

I understand that the judge can decide if a persons previous convictions or behaviour can be released in court as part of the evidence.

I understand that this must be used with caution, the fact that you murdered your first husband does not necessarily mean that you also murdered your second, and every crime should be judged without prejudice. However in a case like this where the accused has a long history of multiple complaints of violence, made not just by members of the public, but by fellow officers as well this should surely be admisable evidence even if none of the complaints went to court.

After the Soham murders, when it was later revealed that Ian Huntley had been the subject of several complaints of sexual misbehaviour, although none went to court, I thought it was agreed that in a case where there were multiple complaints from different sources this evidence was admissable.

A very good point, Flickety.
I wonder when it became overbearing to state your honestly held opinion.

Oh, can we please let it drop now?

It does seem that Harwood should have been found guilty. Even if it was only an alcoholic with an unsupportive family whom he fatally attacked [sarcasm emoticon].

I really do wish that when a poster goes into a strop and threatens never to post on Gransnet again we could just allow them to do just that and not start pleading and saying how much we love them etc. [grumpy emoticon]

Greatnan we need a bit of straightforward comment on Gransnet so keep up the good work

petallus, no one went into a strop. ameliaanne just expressed her surprise at the reaction from some members to her posts. As for 'saying how much we love them, etc.', I would have thought that applied as much to supporters of both sides.

I will never threaten to leave Gransnet,much to the dismay of some people . Even when I am accused of being overbearing (without actually being named, of course), or bullying, I am a big girl now and I can take whatever comes my way. I don't think I have ever used pejorative adjectives about any member - I try to restrict my posts to a discussion of different points of view, not the personalities of those holding them.