Scottish Referendum

MargaretX I think the Scottish diaspora are particularly attached to Scotland, It comes of being away from their homeland, I suppose.

There is so much coming and going over the common land border that I don't think changing currency at the border is going to be convenient.

Absent it seems like a lousy country at times - but let us remember that most of the others are worse! And lets not forget what a good job we did of the Olympics and Paralympics
I am aware that you are planning to go to NZ and although I am a fan, there are a few problems there. Like the fact that the Maori party effectively holds the balance of power. Which is a bit like if the Welsh Nats had the balance of power in the UK
Cheer up absent

Lily - that's the 'West Lothian question, first posed by Tam Dalyell, the county's MP. As a member of the Scottish diaspora (though I haven't got any further than Cheshire), I haven't 'always' wanted independence, MargaretX, though I am still umbilically attached to the homeland. I would have preferred a federal solution on the lines of Germany, the USA or Spain. This would have given a Westminster government control over foreign affairs and defence; with state and regional governments controlling pretty much everything else. It's never going to happen because no national politician is ever going to bite that bullet. As it is, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland substantially control things like health and education but their MPs still have a say in English health and education. Insane! And that's the West Lothian conundrum.

That's right, anno and as you say, a federation might make sense. But it isn't going to happen.

Elegran

Just looked up the point I raised about Tesco and the Union Flag.

It was mentioned in the newspapers. The Question Time prog. came from Inverness, One Touch Theatre, Eden Court.

Yes there is lot to say for having a governing body near to where you live. In Germany it comes from the fact that Germany has been historically so many countries with moving borders. An island has the advantage of remaining the same.
All the same I live in the wealthiest of German states(Lander) and we have to cough up quite a lot to give to the parts of Germany not thriving like my area.
We also have referenda about railway and airport plans and have our own government. It is all not so heated as in Westminster, just endless boring discussions.

I'm sure Tesco just want to be on the winning side but like most other people and organisations they don't know which that is or will be.
The Scots away from home reminded me of my mother who always said of the Irish. They are all in England, singing about Ireland.

The strangest thing is that my sister who, though as Scottish as I am, has lived in NZ for many years, and has gone over to the dark side, would support the All Blacks against Scotland. What treachery!!

Pogs Maybe our Tesco have not noticed that. I have not been in there for a while, all might be different.

POGS Hundreds of Union Flags here in Central Scotland for the Jubilee and even more (Plus lots of Saltires) to greet the Olympic Torch on its travels. Just goes to prove that you can't trust the London Based Media in their ivory towers to give accurate reports about the rest of the country. If I am heading west I look for recent posts from Soop and Bags to see what they are saying about the weather, if going east I see what Gally and Marelli are reporting. Much more accurate than TV weather reports Perhaps we should make more use of our Gnetwork to check the veracity of surprising news reports from far flung locations.

Lily and *Anno totally agree that is unfair for MPs from S, W & NI to vote on England only matters. SNP MPs leave the chamber and neither debate nor vote on Matters which pertain to England only or England and Wales only. Deciding when to withdraw can be problematic because an ostensibly 'England only' debate, will, if it involves increasing or decreasing budgets, have a proportional effect on the Scottish Budget. The Barnett Formula which governs the block grant allocated to Scotland allows for 'consequentials' which basically means if more/less money is allocated to, say, Education, in England then the same percentage increase/decrease must be added to/deducted from that part of the block grant which is designated for Education in Scotland. The whole thing is a confusing, diabolical mess which came about because Tony Blair, whose Government introduced Devolution, needed the Scottish Labour MPs votes at Westminster in order to maintain a majority especially in the case of England Only legislation.

absent, the Proms take place in London (capital of Britain as well as of England) and started long after we were all supposed to be British and so at the time (it was, as I said, a long time ago and certainly before the divisive Mrs T got her claws on things) I felt within my rights to think of the Last Night, with Rule Britannia etc, as a British occasion.

POGS, various Tescos that we visited in Scotland had plenty of Jubilee Union Flag stuff, although I don't know how much they sold.

Nice to know everybody.

Remember I was only saying what the Scottish audience in Inverness said and spoke of.

Wheniwas No reason why you should not think of the proms as British, especially with all the daft nationalistic hoo-hah of the last night of the BBC proms. Nevertheless, the original promenade concerts and the ones later established by Sir Henry Wood (now the BBC proms) were a peculiarly English invention.

Becoming an independent country must be about more serious things than Last Night of the Proms. As I live abroad but get BBC TV, I could watch it but it embarresses me. absentgrana is right. It is nationalistic and appeals to the Brits feeling superior to other nations which history has proved they are not. They were pirates with good ships and what they did which was euphemistically called Empire building but it was piratary and supression.

OK so you can sing your heart out once year if it makes you feel better but it should be seen for what it is.

The rest of the concerts are good though, MargaretX. It's only the last night that has Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and the ghastly Land of Hope and Glory, which really annoyed poor Elgar with its jingoism.

I also get embarrassed by the mindless jingoism of the Last Night of the Proms. However, I feel sure that I have seen the odd saltire and Scottish Lion flags being brandished by the prommers.

anno those All Blacks are magnificent though. I can see the temptation. I have - a rugby supporting hierarchy:
Wales - where i come from
All Blacks - where i would like to be (at least some of the time)
Ireland - where i have many family connections
England - where i live
the rest of the world - dont care who wins
Which is hopefully less jingoistic than the typical Welsh one: I will support any country that is playing against England.
I tried to explain that one to a roomful of Americans once. Which was a challenge.

I'm English and proud to be so. I thought Maggie Thatcher was the best PM we ever had (apart from Churchill). I think the breakup of the UK is dreadful. Before anyone starts berating me about this, I'm not getting into a slanging match about my views. They are my views and I'm entitled to them. End of!

janthea The break up of the Union is by no means certain.

I won't be berating you janthea and I enjoy Last Night at the Proms (what an ignoramus I must be eh?!) also cheered for Britain at the Olympics and even put a small array of bunting out for the Jubilee

I won't be in agreement with you any time soon, janthea, but I'm so glad that you have put your head up above the Conservative parapet. You are certainly entitled to your views.

moomin and annodomini Thanks for your comments. Very sensible ones.

absentgrana I should have said 'possible breakup' I know.

I should also add that I wish we were out of the EU!

Discussion on BBC 4 News just now - it is by no means certain that if Scotland became independent, it would automatically stay in the EU. Also, there is some considerable twitchiness in Brussels about Scottish independence encouraging the Catalonians and the Flemish (and for all I know, a dozen other countries in the EU with bits wishing to breakaway). I thought the EU was in favour of regionalisation but obviously there are limits.

Liligran has beaten me to it. I came onto the computer to tell you all exactly the same piece of news. Well said!
I was surprised but after some thought decided that two years is long enough for it to be cleared up.
Catalonia with their tomatoes and various other perishable vegetables is more dependent on the EU than Scotland.They may not have a football team in the World Cup but they have their own language.

What is very frustrating about this proposal is that Scottish MPs tell us that an independent Scotland is well placed to manage financially while English MPs say that not only could an independent Scotland not manage financially but it would also have huge trouble borrowing what it needed. Both lots just make these statements without giving any background or details so how is anybody supposed to know what to think?