Dave Lee Travis

I am sure there is a lot of 'false memory' around. I agree therapists do seem to be bringing up abuse all the time. I think a high percentage of claimants say their depression is due to unaddressed sexual abuse. I suppose it is possible, but is it likely it was so common?

Exactly what I was going to say too.

Good on you, Barrow.

I think you are right Nanadog - it seems people are encouraged to think of themselves as victims. Some time ago I was diagnosed with depression and my Doctor suggested counselling. I went along and almost from the start the counsellor was saying things like "sexual abuse as a child may result in depression in later life". When I told her I had not been abused she went on to say that suppressing these things caused problems.

Maybe I just had a bad counsellor but I felt she was trying to turn me into a victim as that fitted in with her view of what causes depression.

The closest I came to abuse was a creepy uncle who, when the girls in the family began to develop liked to play "tickling games" during which his hands would wander. My Father had taught me some basic self defence and when he tried it on with me I brought my elbow back sharply and caught him in the face. He immediately let me go and I told him if he ever touched me again I would tell my Father (who without a doubt would have beaten him senseless). That did not make me a victim.

What is worse? Being groped or being subject to verbal sexual innuendoes?

Yes I do nanadog The press encourage it because it makes a better story.
Also lawyers and dare I say it, therapists have an interest in this narrative.

A is bullied at work and her life is devastated. She's a wreck, needs endless therapy and can never work again.
or
B is bullied at work but gets over it, learns from it, comes out wiser and stronger

This is obviously an extreme caricature aimed at highlighting a possible general trend.
I have posted before how much more emphasis there is on coping, strength and bravery in Australia and New Zealand. Terrible floods or an earthquake - TV is showing interviews of people being brave, saying they will get over it and other people turning out with mops and rubber gloves to help with the cleanup.

But victim culture or not, doesn't make sexual bullying in the workplace anything other than totally unacceptable. And I don't think either of the female broadcasters who "came out" about groping in BBC are looking for compensation . I think they were just still peed off at having had to put up with it in order to succeed, without support from management.

Aren't we, as a society, in danger of developing a 'victim' mentality?
So many GNetters have made it clear that as young women they met and dealt with this issue, often quite forcibly. The present generation of young women seem to me even more capable of looking after themselves, and good for them. But if we're not careful we could encourage some less robust young people to think that their 'lives are ruined'.

I may not be putting this very well, and I'm NOT talking here about victims of child abuse; these are truly victims. But I think many posters will see where I'm coming from.

Sexual groping is wrong and always has been but there was a period when it was accepted as being only a trivial event and would not be taken seriously if you complained. That again may not have been right but it was so.

I was in my 20s and 30s in that period and, while it didnt happen often, groping was something I just dealt with. I certainly wouldnt consider now listing all the men who at some time or another groped me and go to the police and making a formal complaint, but then nobody famous ever groped me. If any of them were to repeat their actions now, I certainly would because attitudes have changed and the perpetrator would know full well that what they were doing was criminal and prosecutable.

The men I worked with that I really have it in for are not those who groped me but those who didnt treat me with professional respect. I was a manager in a big, predominantly, engineering company and at various times fellow managers asked me to do their photocopying and one asked me once if I took shorthand, we were away at a meeting and his secretary was not available. Now those I really would take to the police retrospectively.

I believe these woman think they are entitled to compensation - which is the way of the world now. It is dreadfully sad that someone's career may be ruined. How many people will think he is guilty like all the men mentioned in these cases as they have the attitude 'there's no smoke without fire'.

Or want their DD or GD to have to put up with that kind of behaviour at work when.
Have you read the Liz Kershaw link I posted printmiss - really do you think that counts as a cuddle? (not saying this was DLT by the way and neither was she - I heard her on radio and it was part of an interview in which she talked about a general culture in R1 when she first started there)

If DLT was 'only groping' then he was a sex pest by any standards. Yet another illustration of why we as teenagers and young women needed liberation and feminism to free us from this bothersome behaviour and men's general ability to exercise power over us. I hope DLT and others like him have ceased this behaviour nowadays. Who would want a pest like that in their family?

Barrow I remember travelling on a crowded tube train and experiencing another [male] commuter leaning against me [with an erection – he was leaning close enough for me to tell] every time the train stopped and started and putting his hand out to balance when it just, unfortunately, brushed against my breasts or thighs. Eventually, I lost my patience and announced as loudly as I could – and I CAN BE LOUD – "If you touch my breasts or private parts once more, I shall pull the communication cord, you sick pervert". Of course, all the other commuters looked up to see what was going on and the pervert in question slithered off the train at the next stop – to a slow hand clap. My face was a bit red, but I reckoned I had done the right thing.

Oh! Yes, riclorian, stiletto heels were a boon. However, in those days we did just get on with it, and I do rather feel that a lot of people are jumping on the band-wagon. Personally, I quite like a hug with friends, and realise we are not talking about friends here, but for some people it is natural, and can easily be misconstrued. Now we all have to think twice about what we do, what we say and where we say it. It is a sad world at times.

Must have been difficult for those women to confront someone like that; perhaps even fearing for their jobs if they did so. But things were different then..just look at programmes such as Life on Mars; it was quite a culture shock to watch that at the time.

There are a number of posters who experienced what we now call "sexual harassment" and had the confidence to deal with it. That does not make it right. Or should it ever be the woman's responsibility to "deal with it".
Not now, and not ever. It was and is a form of intimidation aimed at "keeping women in their place" and it still is. When the JS scandal broke it was obvious that there would be others caught up in the investigations. I don't think they deserve our sympathy. And if they are alive, they may still be "at it".

I wish I had the chutzpah of a friend of mine. She worked in London and was on her way to work in a crowded tube when she felt someone groping her. She grabbed the hand held it in the air and shouted, I have just found this hand on my body who does it belong to! The offender was very red faced and got off at the next stop.

I agree we all had to deal with men who thought they were Gods gift and could say or do anything but we, usually, managed to deal with it. I remember working with one man who liked to get a bit too close so whenever he walked into my office I would open the drawers on either side of my desk to set up a barrier!

Poor old Hairy Cornflake. I once met a very well known (even now) celeb in ATV television studios - I was wearing a blouse with a pear pattern on it. He said, "thats a nice pear" whilst looking at my chest..IT WAS FUNNY! I LAUGHED! I was 26 years old. Nowadays would he be pilloried in the press! This cannot be compared the JS horror stories.

In my day stilletto heels were most useful - a forceful step in the right direction followed by a very loud ''Oh my goodness did I hurt you ?'' soon left the offender with a very red face !!! We had to learn , in those days , to take care of ourselves , and we did unless it was a very serious offence .I could easily now accuse one or two men of groping ,but in those days we just got on with it and sorted them out in our own way . 30 years is too long ago to accuse someone of groping - just 'Get Over It ' !!!

For those of you who missed coverage of the allegations re Radio 1 here are some links. The issue of "why not complain" is covered. I think they revealed these things against a background of discussion about the culture prevailing in certain parts of BBC some decades ago.

www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/06/dj-liz-kershaw-routinely-groped-bbc
www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/07/sandi-toksvig-i-was-groped-on-air

As a teenager in a bank donkeys years ago one soon learned that there where some men who you kept at arms length. I am NOT condoning it - it was just a fact of life. If you gave them a hard stare, flinched and or said something loud enough for others to hear they did not do it again. There were other girls, however, who would giggle and go back for more. That was the 70s - it happened and you just lived around it. Nowadays we know better and hope our daughters will never have to put up with it. For some people, (and I'm not talking about the child abuse victims - thats a whole different thing) to be looking back at those times and start complaining about what was considered a failrly normal thing especially on the edges of show business is a shame.
The cynic in me thinks that as there has been a certain amount of talk about law suits, these historic events are being dredged up for disingenuous reasons.

I haven't seen any firm information about why DLT was arrested. It may be more than unwanted groping. All I have read are his comments.

maybe not Ana just read your post, but surely t his woman who complains now about being touched on breasts by Travis should have spoken out at time? Not excusing this behaviour but as been said on hear, most of us have been on receiving end and a quick slap or rebuff should be the end of it.

well said nana dog, also feel I had unwanted attention from my b i law when I was only 14!! He married my sister when I was 12, suppose if I wanted to open hornets nest i could report it, after all this time, makes you think, my mother knew about it but in those days you kept quiet.

I said to him once what would my sister day, how can you do this, and he said smugly she would not believe you, i had quick temper and he said she would think you made it up!!!

They still together my sister is under no illusions about him, but what good would raking up past do? I do not think it damaged me for life!!

We do not socialise much with him but I love my sister and niece and great nieces. Life can be complicated!!

I do think the whole thing is now getting seriously out of hand.

Agree Ana and nanapug unless something more substantial comes to light then this is getting out if hand and, more to the point, drawing attention away from the real issue. I doubt there is any one on these forums who has not relieved unwanted or uninvited 'gropes' for lack of a better term at some time in their life and most of us dealt with it, either verbally or physically. And as for being traumatised...get a grip.

I agree, nanapug. The 60s and 70s were different times, and I'm sure we've all been subjected to unwelcome advances in the past which didn't traumatise us for life. I think these revelations came about in the light of the Jimmy Savile accusations to illustrate the laissez-faire attitude prevelant at the BBC and elsewhere at the time, and now it's getting seriously out of hand!