Prank phone call

By the way, although I am an atheist I don't find it all incomprehensible that some people are Catholics (Anglicans maybe, only joking).

And I love a bit of mystification.

Petallus

Can't say I've ever noticed any sniggering and I was, technically, a Catholic (probably still am, technically) for eighteen years.

What I do notice is outright criticism of Catholicism, most of it well founded.

elf, we differ. I feel the same about religions; you feel the same about people (you said atheists, not atheism; subtle but important difference).

I think that although Keith Vaz comes across as a real publicity hound, in this case he is offering support to a family from his own ethnic/religious heritage. They probably look to him, as an influential member of that community, for that support. And miceElf is right except that the slightly incredulous sniping applies to most forms of Christianity. There is also suppression of any positive stories about religion. An example. The public statement made by the father of one of the poor little girls murdered in Connecticut on Friday was broadcast on Radio 4 news late last night. He spoke movingly about her talent for drawing and the warmth of her personality and said these were not the result of parenting skills but gifts from God. He also spoke of the need for Christian compassion towards the perpetrator. When this was broadcast on BBC television news this morning, all reference to God or Christianity was cut.

Perhaps the BBC remembered by the morning that it isn't their job to promote religion, or perhaps the programme's editor thought the parents should be given credit for encouraging the child instead of god. They did, after all, give the child opportunities to practise its talent without which the talent might never have been discovered.

It isn't the job of the BBC to decry religion, either. Or to misrepresent what someone says.

That's true, but is simply missing out a reference to god the same as decrying? I wouldn't have said so. If what was said was actually misreported, then I agree, that is not right. Editing, however, is not the same as misreporting. I didn't hear the original or the subsequent stories, so my comment was general. I'll see if I can find both on iPlayer but if you can put up links that would be good.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9748058/Victims-father-offers-love-and-compassion-to-family-of-gunman.html Sorry, Bags I was listening and watching in real time but the above link is what was broadcast on radio.

Thanks, lily. I heard some of what he said on iPlayer too as part of the Andrew Marr show, and I've now read the article. There is nothing in it that says his daughter's artistic talents were gifts from god. This is what the article quotes him as saying about her:

"Emilie was bright creative and very loving," he said. "She was beautiful. She was blond. She was always smiling.
"She was the type of person who just lit up the room. She always had a kind word to say about anybody.
"She's an incredible person and I am blessed to be her dad."
He described how little Emilie was a serial maker of cards and "always carried around her markers and pencils" to make notes for anyone who was looking sad.

The last sentence of that bit I have quoted suggests that the article has not exactly quoted all he said, but reported it in more general terms. If that is what has happened, I think it is wrong to call that 'decrying religion'.

www.itv.com/news/update/2012-12-16/victims-father-offers-condolences-to-shooters-family/

Here's a video of the speech including mention of Emily's 'heavenly father'.

Thanks, ana.

I note that the family was from Utah. That, and his use of the term 'heavenly father', suggests that they are a Mormon family. The Mormons I know use the expression heavenly father quite a lot. However, that bit is only 48 seconds of his speech. I heard some more of it via BBC iPlayer in which he said more good things. If the BBC or any other media outlet do not directly quote every single word of someone's speech; if they miss out references to gifts from god, that is not evidence that they are decrying religion. That, simply, and standing alone, quite separately from my deep pity for all the families affected by this tragedy, is my argument. Separately again, I'll say that if the religious beliefs of anyone directly affected by such a tragedy can help them at all, I am glad.

Thanks, Ana. Bags I don't think it is an example of 'decrying religion' either. I think it is an example of suppression of positive stories about religion and also misrepresentation of what the man actually meant. I noticed it particularly because I have come across a number of reports recently where an individual has specifically referred to his/her faith as the reason for adopting a particular course of action or attitude and this motivation has not been reported in some of the media. I think it's an example of the huge gulf that now exists between people of faith and others. It seems perfectly natural to me, for example, that there would be a Mass at Westminster Cathedral but this apparently struck some posters as needing further interpretation.

Or it could just be that since people without any religious faith would behave in exactly the same way, mentioning faith just seems to be irrelevant and not newsworthy. I know it's not irrelevant for the people who have religious faith, but in global terms it is irrelevant. This is not anti-religion or suppression of stories about faith; it's just reality. Besides, one could argue that it's morality or goodness that guides people's behaviour and, of course, faith is irrelevant for that too since people without faith are just as good, on average, as people with it. I think, perhaps, that you are a tad over-sensitive about such things becuase faith matters to you. I agree about the mass at Westminster Cathedral though. Catholics do mass after all and the story of the nurse's suicide was national news.

Oh blooming heck I am really sorry I made my comment, in a way.

I did not know Keith Vaz was a catholic. I always think of him as being Lebanese, where he was born (Aden) to Indian parents. I have seen Keith Vaz 'parade' over the years around Leicester and I genuinely thought he was Muslim or Hindu or other.He is a master of P.R. I simply never thought of Catholic. Given Mr. Vaz has had, shall I politely say, a somewhat colourful time being an M.P. I am sceptical of anything he does. Now that may be wrong of me but that was my intended message.

I had absolutely no intention of making this a religious debate but I can see how I misjudged my wording and I apologise to those who may be offended.

I would never offend anyones right to believe in their God or not to believe at all so please accept my genuineness and I have taken note of all comments and I am reflecting on those.

POGS

POGS No offence taken by me. Peace and Merry

I saw it last night and can't remember the exact wordingof whatever News I was watching but it was said that the father was a Mormon. He was so impressive and it gave me pause for thought.

Sel

Who's father was a mormon????

The child who is spoken of in the radio and TV speech mentioned above. I had surmised that he was a Mormon already.

Sorry, I had surmised that the child's father was a Mormon.

Thanks POGS and Faye , I ^ hope ^ I will be spoiled . Tee Hee