Welfare cash cards

That's told you phoenix. I bet you didn't know any of that. I guess that this is just one more thread to avoid.

Ivanhoe as ever you miss the point. I don't know why you don't just shout into a bucket, at least then you would hear what you seem to want to hear.

By the way, do you suffer from high blood pressure?

phoenix, ""Ivanhoe as ever you miss the point"".

What "point" am I missing then ?

No need to rewrite what I said, I'm perfectly capable of remembering.

The point being that we currently have a coalition government, which not one person in the country could have voted for even if it was what they wanted, which of course it wasn't. Hence my comment that nobody actually voted for the current government.

And you might just as well blame the LibDems for the government we have, as it was their decision to join forces with the Conservatives rather than Labour led by Gordon Brown (even after GB offered to resign...).

Should be 'lead'!

Ana, Nick Clegg could not join forces with Gordon Brown because Gordon Brown lead a "failed" Government.

This was a point raised at the time by Nick Robinson the BBC's political analyst.

phoenix, Forgive me please if you already told me this, but are you a Tory voter ?

Well, he certainly came very close to doing so. It was only Clegg's personal dislike of Gordon Brown (and the fact that otherLabour big-wigs seemed to be rather hostile to the idea) that prevented us having a Lab/Lib coalition.

Unlike some who vote for a particular party regardless (VQ's comment re voting for a chimpanzee if it was wearing a red rosette for example) I tend to start with a local perspective, which I apply to general elections, local council elections and more recently the one relating to the police commissioners.

I read every piece of literature and go to the hustings when possible. I then make my choice as to who to vote for. My choice of candidate doesn't always win, but at least I can feel confident that I have made a reasonably informed decision.

Therefore I would not be able to say that I was a Tory voter, a Labour voter or even a Monster Raving Loony Party voter, although the cnadidate for the latter did actually get elected in one of the local council elections somewhere in the county (Devon).

There are certain issues that if looked at on a national basis, seem reasonable, but when considered locally are not.

For example the move for increased house building. Locally we have more houses than are needed, but a dearth of jobs. My husband has to live away during the week as he couldn't find anything locally, and I have been out of work since being made redundant in March of last year.
Wind farms too are very relevant round here.

So basically I put the needs of the immediate area first in my mind, and look for a politician who understands them and can make sensible, achievable proposals to deal with them

phoenix , What party do you largely vote for at general elections ?

Don't fall for it, phoenix! One false move and you'll either be castigated for ruining the country or press-ganged into Ivanhoe's rebel army....

I have not kept a record of my voting over the past however many years, so I couldn't really say.

I also do not approach my personal selection process with any preconceived ideas in that I have no ingrained political leanings towards any particular party.

Each individual on their own merit. Can't be doing with the "4 legs good, 2 legs bad" approach. (Apologies to George Orwell)

The problem with selling off council houses was not in allowing people to buy the house they lived in but in not allowing councils to use the money to replenish the housing stock. Having said that, Ivanhoe, whichever colour of party in power comes up with a wizard wheeze, no subsequent government will change it if it is to their advantage. I didn't like Thatcher or what she did to the country (and the miners). But my feelings about Blair and Brown are even more visceral as they betrayed the thousands who voted for them, more than once, in the reasonable expectation that things would be different under Labour. Were they?

Lilygran , Well said.

So who do you usually vote for Ivanhoe ?

No, Ana I think you were right first time with led (past tense of to lead, unlike read which is both past and present, but pronounced differently of course)
#pedantsRus.

phoenix, Always Labour Governments because I know they help the poor.

I thought so afterwards, gracesmum - but too late! Isn't it funny how sometimes words just look wrong...although they're not?

I know I said I'd vote for a chimp etc but I do believe that Labour are the better party. It's not just habit or indoctination.

I didn't follow the party line in the police commissioner election because I thought the job should go to someone who actually knew what it was to be a police officer and understood how the system works rather than the septuagenarian class traitor who was the Labour candidate.

Ivanhoe I'm sure your heart is in the right place - helping the poor is very laudable but someone has to provide the money to do so. As a country without many natural resources, businesses have to generate wealth to enable the poor and needy to be looked after. A Government which supports businesses and lessens the laws that hampers their growth is ultimately a good thing surely?

You seem to hanker back to pre war days when there was a need for the old Socialist regime. It's probably impossible for you to understand that many people are capable of looking after themselves and do not want 'The State' to do so. Obviously, there are some who will, through no fault of their own, need that care and they should and are, cared for. If you think not, I suggest you compare the benefits available here to some other countries.

Sel, then why am I and millions of other working people paying into "STATE" coffers taxes and NI contributions, if not to help ourselves and others when it is neeed ?

Answer me that please.!

P.S.., Britain has never had a socialist Government.

Ivanhoe you and millions of working people are paying into State coffers, a percentage of your income. That income comes from a wage unless it is unearned.

The Labour party was founded on Socialist principles surely?

Sel, clearly you didnt grasp what I said. Here we are again.

""Then why am I and millions of other working people paying into "STATE" coffers taxes and NI contributions, if not to help ourselves and others when it is needed"" ?

Ahhh, you're correct Ivanhoe I didn't answer your question. I think the clue to the answer is in the question 'when it's needed' That's another debate isn't it? Is it really needed or just desired? To whom shall we pay this money? Should you only receive the money if you have paid in? How does the State pay it's debts? We've had many years of profligrate government under NEW Labour and the resultant debt is huge, how do we service this debt and still continue to pay those who need support?