Reduction in starting pay for police

Seems a reasonable differential to me too, as a starting salary.

Newly-qualified teachers are just that, qualified, whereas a new police recruit is a 'rookie'.

Seems fair to me, but comparisons are so fraught aren't they?I can remember a supply teacher we had once who was ex-HMP (working in,not inmate!). He didn't last out the week as our supply!

I don't think police officers always go everywhere in pairs, and a 'rookie' is still more likely to be in a dangerous situation than a newly qualified teacher.

I agree, Ella. The two jobs aren't really comparable.

Have policeman got to work till they're 68 as well under the new guidelines or do they still retire early?

Ella; you haven't taught in some of the schools that my daughter has ...

No, but I was a police officer!

Yes!

Ella how long is it since you stopped? In this area the community officers they employ go out on their bikes in ones. Qualified police officers never seen alone. Even the ones that ride on horses round our town centre always in twos. Even when they are coming to school for a meeting with the head - at least two.
In NZ you often see them out alone, doing random breath tests for instance.
I have seen teachers wading in to break up fights between big boys at the school gate while the community liaison officer heads off down the road on his bike, not even stopping to call for some assistance. And petite women teachers doing the same, alone, in school corridors.

I agree that the starting pay for the police was probably too high, but I really don't think that comparing the two jobs is helpful - different skills, aptitudes and talents are required for each (I wouldn't want to do either, incidentally!). I do think that police men and women have a uniquely dangerous job, though, and should be adequately recompensed for having to do this round the clock!

Jess That's a leading question!
Around here I must amit that it's usually police women that are alone, as the men are quite small and need moral support!

Actually, it's used to be easier for women to diffuse trouble than men, but of course that was when women were treated with some respect.

Is no one concerned that this is actually a massive pay cut? It's undermining the whole police pay system. If the government can change the agreements to reduce the starting pay then what else can they do police officers pay and conditions.

This is the thin edge of the wedge.

jessM love you but strongly disagree--Police do not go out in pairs if in London--Teachers have a degree yes but Police have to go into situations that are Life Threatening, it really does not get much worse than that, every day they go out, they could be killed..

Teachers facing teenagers OR Police facing nutters killers rapist domestic violence people etc etc

I do appreciate that Teachers dont have it easy any more at all..But compared to a Policemans day they do... x x

I live in the middle of London, near a police station, and I'm genuinely racking my brain to remember the last time I saw a police officer on foot - so I really don't know if they go out in pairs or singly!

The government has made it clear it does intend to make many changes to police pay and conditions. Tom Windsor (I think) was commissioned to make a study of police pay and conditions and his report was published about a year ago. This is just the start of the implementation of it.

What staggered me was to hear that some train drivers were earning over £50,000 a year, a few as much as £60,000. Even allowing for an element of overtime that is a huge amount.

DD does shift work in a 24/7 job and she gets no extra allowances when she has to work shifts at weekends or on bank holidays. It's compensations are that some shifts are 10 or 12 hours and she frequently ends up working four day weeks and can benefit from the special rates for mid-week minibreaks in hotels etc if she wants one.

Police around here - on the rare occasions when they are to be seen on foot are usually in pairs. But I think that's just for company to relieve the boredom. Motorised police are often alone.

I know that police often find themselves in highly dangerous situations but, like firemen, there's quite a lot of inactivity and boring bits in between. On the radio this morning they said it was only complete rookies who would start on the basic salaries and they would quickly rise. Does anyone know what the top rate is for a constable?

FlicketyB, yes I've just googled 'trainee train drivers' pay' and even for a trainee the salary is around £40,000 for a 35 hour, 4 day week - twice as much as the proposed starting rate for a PC. Doesn't see right, does it?

Nfk from the article I read, the higher rate was quoted as £36,000 pa.

(Should be in the article I read...)

I don't think you're comparing like with like.

Teachers, police officers and train drivers do totally different jobs and have totally different responsibilities. In defence of engine drivers they can be responsible for up to 1000+ passengers on their train. One mistake can lead to catastrophe so please don't think 'only a engine driver'.

FlickertyB...you may well trust this government to keep it's word but I don't. Nothing is sacred to David and his chums.

I have never expected any government to keep its word, least of all this one.

The fact that people do entirely different jobs does not preclude comparing them. That is why local councils are tied up in knots over giving extra pay to women employees as the result of comparing the pay of dustmen (a predominantly male occupation) and office cleaners (a predominantly female occupation until recently).

When I was at work we had a major job evaluation scheme using something called the 'Hayes Job Evaluation Scheme'. Everyone's job went through the mill, Research managers, senior engineering managers, cleaners, maintenance men, secretaries, the lot and we all came out with grades on a unified company grade and pay system. I admit it provided some very silly results and some specialities ended up with job specific bonuses to stop all the staff in that speciality resigning en-masse when they saw the pay that went with the grade, others were paid way over the odds but generally it worked.

Engine drivers are earning as much as airline pilots, who start at between £25 - £45k and an aircraft captain can earn as little as £54K. Please no one say their jobs cannot be compared.

Engine drivers had a really strong rich union.

Don't underestimate the Police Federation, Nfk. They will be getting their ammunition together by now, although they are not able to use a strike as a weapon.

They didn't seem as upset as I expected them to be. Perhaps you're right, but surely there must have been unofficial discussions already.