The reality behind the deficit cutting.

Ivanhoe we cannot be industry led, if our industry cannot compete with the new emerging markets who undercut them, it's the harsh reality of living in a global world. Genie's out of the lamp, can't stuff him back in!

BAnanas, this is why we need to be in Europe where they dont compete, they buy and sell to each other with good minimum wages care of the Social Charter.

And a lot of them are out of work. Have bigger deficits than ours and unstable governments!

I would not pay any more to pensioners than they have paid in to the system.
If they have only paid enough to be paid £10 per week that is all they should get.
Also abolish the royal family.
Persue fathers / mothers who have deserted their children for the full cost of keeping their children.

Frank

I'm all for the last!

Oh yes Ivanhoe I see what you mean, I presume Spain and Greece are part of the Social Charter. Protecting minimum wages is academic if there aren't any wages to protect!

Ivanhoe

"This is why we need to be in Europe where they don't compete, they buy and sell to each other".

For goodness sake I think that takes the ruddy biscuit.

You asked me a question, which I answered. Now can I ask you one. What role have you played in politics as one of your posts gives the impression you have held a political post of some kind?.

POGS, elaborate please ?. What takes the biscuit ?, to quote yourself.

I am with Ivanhoe, and personally wouldn't cut anything ! I'd have the guts to increase tax ( remember when it used to be 33% ), and invest it in expanding the public sector - good old Keynesian economics - which is how we rebuilt after the war ( problem then was the dozy government didn't follow his strategy and stop investing...)

What a better place the world would be with more street cleaners, park attendants, bus conductors etc

look what a mess privatisation got us into ( thanks Mrs T , great idea - not )- privatise hospital cleaning - introduce MRSA, get rid of 'auxiliary nurses', oh look, elderly people left in their own faeces , dehydrated, sell council houses, and make ghettos out of once family friendly estates, and condemn a generation to rely on exploitative landlords ( not all granted..), sell utilities to your cronies, and use the profits to reward shareholders instead of helping the vulnerable....

not that I'm left wing or anything, of course

Just to pick up on the point regarding manufacturing in this country. My husband and I have been running a small engineering company for over 20 years and we feel massively let down by government. We often deal with engineering companies in Germany and they are quite astonished at both the lack of support offered to manufacturers in the UK and also the level of corporation tax and red tape forced onto micro businesses. Quite frankly in the UK we are not competing on a level playing field with much of the rest of Europe.

Well said, POGS. Ivanhoe seems to be repeating himself, and to accuse another poster of a lack of imagination seems a bit rich!

Ivanhoe

"europe, where they don't compete, they buy and sell to each other"

Do you honestly believe they do not export nor import goods to countries outside of the EU?

That's what I meant, your comment was unbelievable.

Ivanhoe

By the way did you see my question on the 4th at 20,57?

I appreciate if you don't wish to reply, it was so interesting to read you had been involved in politics for so long on the EU thread.

If the countries in the Eurozone only traded with each other I would imagine it would be regarded as protectionism by the other free market economies in particular China who many countries in Europe are heavily indebted to. I believe I read that one Chinese Finance Minister believes Europe is in the doldrums because our hours are too short and our welfare payments are too great.

BAnanas , Have you even been on welfare in here in Britain ?

POGS, I have been involved in politics since the Thatcher era.

I used to be a Labour activist until Tony Blair took Labour to the right to adopt to the "wants" of the greed ridden middle classes who ditched Labout in 1979 and who voted for Thatcher and who saddled us with Thatcherism for 18 years.

It's the total amount spent on welfare, Ivanhoe, not the amount an individual gets.

gillybob, Across the EU, Government's invest into their industries and manufacturing, where as here in Britain what we have in industry and manufacturing swim or drown on their own at the whim of "markets"

This is the vital difference between the EU and the UK.

The EU is Industry and manufacturing lead.

Where as Britain is "market" lead.

Also EU workers pay higher income tax than we British. .

Britain has been a low income tax, low waged, short term, and very insecure deregulated free market economy since Thatcher.

Ivanhoe I find it totally unacceptable to ask a GNer if they have ever been on welfare/benefits.

Ivanhoe

Have you watched Aljazeera today, if you can get Freeview ofcourse). You will see decent world news, not the poor, repetative stuff we are fed on the BBC.

Greece has dock workers and Ferry workers on strike because they have had a cut in wages and conditions, like most people in Greece.

Seville in Spain has uncollected rubbish because of municipal workers on strike, because of pay cuts and shorter working hours.

The UK unemployment is 4th 'best' (if you can call it best) in the EU. Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece are in one hell of a mess. They have unemployment at a 24% ours is 7.9%

You are putting your head in the sand when it comes to the EU.

It was pretty obvious you were a Labour activist, nothing wrong with that. I just thought the way your comment read you might have held a position in Local government or something like that. Thank you for answering my question.

Ivanhoe, on a previous post I think I stated that unless a poster volunteers personal information such as who they vote for, what their religious beliefs are, sexual status or financial position and I would include welfare in the latter, I think it's unacceptable to ask. I don't know you, you are not a confidante of mine, you have no right to ask me such a pointed question, so mind your own damn business!

So glad you replyed BAnanas.

Come one – anyone can ask a question here. No one has to answer it. It's not some jobsworth on the telephone or one of those 48-page government forms.

Anyway I think Ivanhoe was asking a rhetorical question. He was trying to make the point that in his opinion benefits are not generous, in reply to BAnana's post about the Chinese Finance Minister believing Europe to be in the doldrums because our hours are too short and our welfare payments are too great.

As I posted, it's the welfare bill in general that's high, not the payouts to individuals.

Hear Hear Ana