Will the Catholic church's cover-up never end?

Surely, the fact that the Archbishop has relieved them of their duties shows that he is as disgusted by it as you are. Of course there will be more skeletons in the cupboard but I think the modern day church is doing what it can to bring this out into the open.

Barrow All credit to Archbishop José Gomez. However, that these two people appear to have been conspiring to cover up abuse recently doesn't fill me with confidence that the church as an organisation is doing all it can.

There isn't an organsation in the world that doesnt have some secrets... you can blame the people but not the organization!

Reading the article it appears it relates to a cover up in the 80s which has come to light now through the Archbishop.

What happened in the past can't be undone but acknowledging it now is a step in the right direction.

helshea I blame the individuals for the acts of abuse committed by them. I blame the organisation, i.e. the church, for covering up those acts to prevent the organisation from being damaged and to prevent a police investigation that might bring the perpetrator to justice and prevent further terrible harm done to young people.

The organisation, i.e. the Catholic church, not just keeping the secret but its senior members conspiring to do so is unforgivable.

I think you can blame the organisation if a large proportion of the senior management have been conspiring to protect staff when they are engaged in an activity that is unlawful.

The problems in the RC church are obviously deep seated and have been going on far longer than any of us originally thought. The reaction of the senior clerics is to cover up/look inward and become even more conservative. There was a time around Vatican Two when many of us thought things were moving forward and modernization was around the corner but it all came to a halt and I see it going backwards instead. Very, very sad especially for women who have been marginalized and have now given up any hope of that changing.

Covering up abuse was appalling and the original abuse even worse. But what we have here is a story about an archbishop NOW refusing to allow the cover up to continue. Indication of change and a good news story, surely? Some senior clerics were guilty of putting their fellow clerics' interest ahead of the interests of the individuals who had been abused. Now it looks as though senior clerics are taking the opposite approach. The answer to the OP is, yes, it appears as though it has!

Sometimes I can't believe I was brought up to revere the hierarchy of the Catholic church, I was disillusioned enough to find out in my mid teens what a dark and evil history it had, they don't teach you that at a Catholic School. Seems at times it's not much better now, will the abuse and cover ups never end. Just gets worse and worse. I think I read somewhere on the internet that Mother Theresa was a bit dubious in the way she cared for people. Giving last rites to people of other faiths, not really doing anything much at all for the sick and I believe misappropriating money.

Absent I'm not sure what you're doing reading that junk missive. Did you read the article about the Magdalene Laundries - and the replies?

My feeling is that most religions don't bear an awful lot of examination. They are run by men, for men and generally do a great disservice to women and the less powerful.

That's not to say that there aren't decent and caring people within them, but the actual organisations and their "leaders" are usually pompous, secretive, out of touch, self-absorbed and obsessed with hierarchy and appearances.

(With apologies to The Quakers who, whilst not sharing their spiritual beliefs, I greatly admire for their kindness and humanity)

It is all appalling makes me mbrassed to be catholic!

I was appalled by the cardinal at least he admitted his failings but is pretty grim don't tell me there is more.

Yes do agree Eloethan with all you say. Religions run by men to subjugate women. Seeing all the Cardinals gathered at the moment (all men) just smacks of chauvanism, women as always excluded from any decision making, relegated to the minor tasks of flower arranging and cooking for the all important men. They are as you say, pompous, secretive, out of touch, self obsessed with hierarchy and appearances.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, former Bishop of St. Andrews and Edinburgh, has taken early retirement and admitted to 'inappropriate sexual conduct' with young priests. One of his victims said he had been told to keep quiet or he would be 'crushed'. See the article in the Catholic Herald.
I think the fact that has enraged Catholic homosexuals is that he was very virulent in his condemnation of homosexuality for many years.
There may well be a lot more to come out about alleged homosexual parties within the Vatican walls.
Hypocrisy?
I have great sympathy for the many catholics who feel betrayed by the institution in which they placed such faith. I was taught to revere it, and all priests.

I can see why "Lilygran" feels that things are changing and the fact that an archbishop is trying to get a grip on the situation in his diocese is progress. But the fact remains that the rules of the catholic church encourage unacceptable sexual behaviour by repressing normal instincts - and their systems may attract people who wish to have unfettered access to children.

The need for change is in grassroots doctrine, not in tinkering around the edges.

How can an archbishop command a cardinal? Just interested in the protocol!

Cardinal O'Brien has a thread all to himself. It was suggested by GNers and firstly by Evan Davis and some other prominent gays, that his aggressive attacks on homosexuality were triggered by his own internal conflicts and probably by a degree of self-hatred. Incidentally, while I don't think enforced celibacy is a good idea or even doctrinally required, it's only fair to point out that thousands of people live happy and otherwise fulfilled, celibate lives. And when did being married stop anyone from abusing children or adults of either sex if they were wicked enough that way inclined and in a position to do so?

What I should like to know is what their confessors said to them? Did they confess? If not, sin after sin after sin.....

So many points to comment on here.

Firstly Mishap. You assert that the systems of RCC msy attract people who wish to have unfettered access to children. Well, no more than the teaching profession or the Scout movement or sports coaches. Paedophiles will seek opportunities wherever and whenever they can. The church now has one of the strictest safeguarding procedures in place of any institution. Nothing can ever be foolproof, but it's the very best we can do.

BAnanas, you sound very bitter and angry and it's hard to respond to the sweeping statements you make.

Glammy makes a good point. Vatican II was a great hope, I can only pray that now the ideals and principles which began there fifty years ago come to fruition.

Absent, I agree with your comment about individuals and the cover up by the institution. All are guilty of grave sin. But, although many on this forum seem to think that every Catholic priest is the devil in disguise, that really isn't the case. The great majority are overworked decent chaps trying to live according the teachings of Jesus and to provide spiritual support to parishioners as well as running a parish.

Great Nan, oddly enough I wasn't brought up to revere the clergy! My memories are that any priest or curate was carefully evaluated, their strengths commended and any shortcoming swiftly pointed out. Different parishes, different cultures.

Certainly the zeitgeist of the 40s and 50s was much more deferential to all institutions and authority than today. That applied to politics, medics, teachers and so on. I think the church was no different.

And as for the future, all any of us in the church can do is to hope and pray that good will triumph. There are many many good and holy people in the church. Now might be the time for sweeping changes.

PS for Galen. The Archbishop of a diocese has authority over a former Archbishop even if he is a cardinal. A retired or Bishop Emeritus has no power at all.

Micelf - I have realised when reading comments from yourself and Lilygran that my understanding of the Catholic Church is based almost solely on the way it operated in the 1940s and 1950s and I can see that a real effort is now being made to root out not only the child abusers but those who covered up their crimes. However, there are still some dioceses in various countries that are doing their best to avoid paying any damages to victims of abuse, to the extent of declaring themselves bankrupt. It may well be that individual dioceses cannot afford large damages. so I think the whole of the Church should accept responsibility and the Vatican should open its fat coffers and pay any damages.
Only when people see that the Church is willing to pay in financial terms for its past errors will any trust or confidence be restored.

Great Nan I absolutely agree.

MiceElf, I'm not bitter and angry anymore, I only very occasionally go to church now, although I still believe in the essence of Jesus' message, I just think he has been completely misrepresented. I've been divorced so I can't take the sacraments anyway. I had a very strict catholic upbringing both at home and at my convent school, I don't think it did me a lot of good and although I considered it, I decided my children would be happier if I didn't bring them up catholic, my rationale for this was that if they did choose a religion when they were old enough, at least they would be making an informed choice for themselves and not have it chosen for them like me. However, I'm not really affected by everything that is going on now, I agree with Greatnan's statement I'm sorry for all the good catholic people who feel let down and betrayed by the church I know my mum would have been one of them if she was still here. I don't think it's a sweeping statement to say that women are subjugated by the catholic religion, they are hardly empowered by it. It's certainly not the only patriarchal religion in the world where women are treated like second class citizens and have men dictate to them about how many children they should or shouldn't have.

Teachers and Scout masters have access to normal sexual outlets.

The known conspiracy of silence around paedophile behaviour within the RC church could act as an incentive to to choose that job. Lots of access to children; the trust of parents; and little likelihood of getting into trouble. If a child threatens to squeal, then he can always be told that it is god's will. It really is quite shocking and gives me the creeps.

Hopefully that certainty of protection is being eroded - and about time too.