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pensioners and bedroom tax

(36 Posts)
MamaCaz Thu 14-Feb-13 12:29:04

Are you one of the 90 000 pensioners who could be affected by this? If you claim Pension Credit, and you or your partner is retired, but the other is still of working age, then you probably are.
Many people are still unaware that when Universal Credit is brought in, such mixed-age couples making a new claim for benefit will no longer be eligible for Pension Credit. Instead, they will have to claim UC. That means that the so-called bedroom tax will apply. On top of that, the much lower benefits available on UC mean that as a couple, they will get less help than a single pensioner living alone.
I found an excellent blog on the subject:

speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/pensioners-hit-by-75m-bedroom-tax-this-year/

I accept that it is necessary to tackle public spending, but it seems unfair that the pensioner in the couple should be penalised in this way. I fear that these changes will lead either to a surge in divorces, or to a considerable number of poor pensioners whose autumn years will be very bleak due to their having a younger partner who, for one reason or another, is unable to bring in a living wage.

Riverwalk Thu 14-Feb-13 12:36:19

Are pensioners really going to be taxed on the number of bedrooms? confused

Barrow Thu 14-Feb-13 12:40:47

It does seem very unfair on the surface that a couple who have lived in a house for many years will be faced with moving because of the "bedroom tax". However, there are many families on the housing list waiting for a family home to become available and if a couple are living in a 3 or 4 bedroom house it does make sense for them to move to a smaller property to enable a family to move in.

However, having said that, I can appreciate that some couples have lived in their homes for many years and the disruption of having to move could be detrimental to their health. I would hope that rather than just ticking boxes those making the decisions about whether a couple should move or not would take everything into consideration.

I think if a couple are prepared to move to a smaller property they should be allowed to choose a 2 bedroomed place in order that family can visit without having to pay the so called "bedroom tax".

MamaCaz Thu 14-Feb-13 12:54:43

For some reason, most people seem to imagine that pensioners are all rattling around in huge houses with loads of bedrooms, but in reality, lots of pensioners are already in 2 bedroomed properties. Unless they downsize, they will still have their benefit cut by 14% if they fall into the catagory I mentioned in my first post.

If they have to move into a one-bedroomed property, it's goodbye to having the grandchildren to stay, and no more sleeping in another room when one is snoring too loudly, or is ill. No more weekend visits from family who live a long way away.
What's more, if you read the statistics, it seems that the proposed measures will not save money, but will actually increase spending!

Mishap Thu 14-Feb-13 13:01:56

This does appear to be personal state interference on a grand scale!

Ivanhoe Thu 14-Feb-13 13:19:27

This bedroom tax is just another ploy to pit the nation against each other because we are so easily divided.

The Tories say its to save tax payers money. Yet ive read that the implimentation of this policy is going to cost tax payers more money, just as the means test Pensions Credit costs more money than an up rate in the State pension.

bluebell Thu 14-Feb-13 13:57:00

There are a range of issues re the bedroom tax but one I haven't seen brought up in the media is that if you move from social housing because you can no longer afford it because of the bedroom tax, you might have to move into private sector housing and almost certainly then have a much inferior tenure.

vampirequeen Thu 14-Feb-13 14:29:04

Also there aren't enough one bedroom properties available. Milliband pointed out in the House that there are 4000 claimants affected in Hull and only 79 suitable properties.

HildaW Thu 14-Feb-13 14:42:11

It all sounds a bit like the 16thC 'window' tax....whats going to happen will folks have to brick up spare rooms?

MamaCaz Thu 14-Feb-13 14:46:27

Living in a one-bedroomed property would severely restrict family contact for many pensioners.
I wonder how a Human Rights challenge based on the right to family life and respect of one's home would fare!

bluebell Thu 14-Feb-13 14:52:19

It actually makes me feel quite sad - one of those things NOT on my wish list for Britain. Surely one spare bedroom could be acceptable?

HildaW Thu 14-Feb-13 14:54:46

Its worse than daft MamaCaz, there are many folks who for many different reasons prefer separate rooms. Nothing to do with health or special needs either. Can remember my Mum, once we had all flown to nest sort of moved into my bedroom, using it first as a dressing room then as a sort of boudoir and eventually a full bedroom. She and Dad were no less close its just that the older they got the more their lark/owl missmatch seemed to matter. She would delight in going to bed early and reading a book whilst he was awake till much later. They were far from wealthy, I'm not talking about a country 'hice' but a little 3 bed semi in Swindon!

ayse Thu 14-Feb-13 16:03:26

Well that puts paid to retiring a bit early to spend more time with the DH. I shall just have to hope my job lasts until Sept 2014. I have to say it does look a bit doubtful. What a nightmare for lots of people.
I live in a large area of social housing although I think quite alot is privately owned. I rue the day that the Tories and later Labour decided to sell off our social housing. It galls me to see great big 4 wheel drives in the front garden of these small 2/3 bedroom houses. It was made even worse when local authorities were not able to invest the proceeds in new social housing.
We currently live in my daughter's 2 bed flat and we too are larks and owls. We also have loads of stuff that we store in the little bedroom. It's also very good for guests.
It makes my blood boil that the poorest in Society are paying for international bankers gambling habits (although I do know that approximately 5-10% of the unemployed are content not to work). It seems to me that most of these people (5%-10%)are working and signing on at the same time, earning extra through ebay and similar or are small time thieves.
Sorry about the rant but I think it is appalling and not the action of a so called civilised society. angryangry

Pennysue Thu 14-Feb-13 16:48:54

Although I can see that a 3 bedroom house being lived in by 1 person seems a waste of housing - if they do want people to "downsize" that the new property needs to be "fit for use".

If my Mother lived in a 1 bed house it would have been very awkward over the last year - I have had to stay with her following 2 knee replacements and 2 cataract operations. Only for a few days each time but how could I have done this in a 1 bed place

As it was I had to have a blow up bed in her sitting room - she was in one bedroom and the other smaller bedroom is full of her "crafting goods" She owns her own property but downsized from a much bigger property 10 years ago.

2 years ago Mum looked at moving to a new purpose built for the people over 60. A 2 bedroom flat, although lovely, had a tiny kitchen, and cost over £100,000 more than her freehold semi, there were also service charges with were way over what she pays in Council tax etc. So no chance. Interestingly quite a few of these flats are still empty.

Ivanhoe Fri 15-Feb-13 11:11:12

Ayse, """"Labour decided to sell off our social housing""

Council house were sold off at 10 per cent the market value during Thatcher's right to buy".

This was an opportunist policy designed to get votes and it worked.

I, as a former Labour activist, am not aware that "New" Labour which carried through Margaret Thatcher's right wing free market policies, continued allowing council tenants to buy their council houses.

Have you proof of what you say ?, I would be genuinely interested to know.

Ana Fri 15-Feb-13 11:19:57

"I, as a former Labour activist, am not aware that New Labour....continued allowing council tenants to buy their council houses."

Perhaps you should do more research, Ivanhoe.

www.politics.co.uk/reference/right-to-buy

Ivanhoe Fri 15-Feb-13 11:33:26

Ana, Perhaps you are right, but this for me was never a priority, the elderly and their meagre State pensions were, and remain a priority.

However here it is.

When Labour came to power in 1997, the Right to Buy process looked to be slowing down. Labour applied the brakes by reducing the maximum discount from £50,000 to £38,000 in 1999. At the same time, it reduced the proportion of Capital Receipts from sales of council housing that local authorities were required to retain, releasing £3 billion.

In 2001, the Scottish Executive reduced the maximum discount in Scotland to just £15,000 and increased the minimum tenancy period to five years. In October that year, it was alleged that loopholes in the Right to Buy arrangements were being abused by property developers, which were bribing tenants to buy their homes and let them out at market rates. The announcement in July 2002 that restrictions on the right were under consideration by the Government led to a mass of new applications. In October that year, with many believing that the Government planned to end the Right to Buy, the Conservatives promised to retain it, and extend it in full to Housing Association tenants.

By 2002, many voices were warning that Right to Buy was exacerbating the incipient housing crisis in many areas. The policy was diminishing the stock of affordable housing, making it harder for many to get on to the housing ladder. In 2000-2001, 53,000 homes were transferred under Right to Buy, but only 18,000 new affordable homes were built.

In March 2003, Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott announced that the maximum discount was to be cut in 41 local authority areas in London and the South East.

The Government's Housing Act, which received Royal Assent in November 2004, included further changes to modernise, including the end of the little used Rent to Mortgage. Most of these changes came into force on 18 January 2005, but the scheme is still open to almost any secure tenant who can afford to buy, with only certain specified dwellings, e.g. police houses, being exempt.

Controversies

Right to Buy was one of the Thatcher governments' most popular policies, and it had a profound social impact in dramatically increasing the rate of owner-occupancy. Even since 1995, annual sales under Right to Buy have been around 50,000.

The impact on local government has also been significant. At the start of the 1980s, local authorities were one of the biggest direct providers of housing: Right to Buy and other policies, such as the right for tenants to opt for management by an "approved landlord" rather than the council under the Housing Act 1988, were intended to transform them into "enablers". As a result, the significance of housing to local government is considerably diminished.

The policy was also seen to be expensive for councils, which were forced to sell their housing stock at below the market rate. Large-scale stock transfer, moreover, diminished council housing accounts (which are separate from other revenues and spending), hampering authorities' ability to carry out repairs and improvements.

Labour's pro-public sector instincts and its hostility to "Thatcherite" policies left it in what many described as a somewhat ambiguous position with regard to Right to Buy. Some sections continued to press for its abolition, but the Government remained unwilling to commit itself to abolition. The identified abuses of the scheme by property developers were invoked as justification for restrictions that many had expected to come earlier.

Nevertheless, the threat posed by property developers is genuine. There is said to be widespread evidence of developers encouraging paying council tenants to buy their homes - often without regard to their ability to afford the mortgage - in order to let their homes out at the market rate. As the buyer is liable to repay the discount if a property is resold within three years, some former tenants have found themselves homeless. More widely, the range of incentives offered to council tenants to buy in the 1980s and 1990s led to some people buying without regard for the loss of benefits they would incur and the responsibility they would have to take for maintaining their homes - occasionally with damaging results.

Opponents have also claimed that the Right to Buy Scheme has contributed to the decline in the stock of affordable housing. The UK has had a poor record in building new low cost housing since the 1960s, and combined with a booming property market, many not eligible for the Right to Buy have found themselves completely unable to do so. This has been particularly felt in London and the South East, where many vital public sector workers, such as teachers and police officers have found themselves priced out of the market.

Recent Developments

In November 2011, a major new housing strategy was announced by the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister, the aim of the strategy being to tackle the housing shortage, boost the economy, create jobs, and give people an opportunity to get on the housing ladder.

The new strategy included proposals to dramatically increase discounts under the Right to Buy scheme, with social tenants being allowed discounts of up to 50% of the value of their home, making home ownership more achievable.

The Government also announced that for the first time, the receipts from additional Right to Buy sales will be used to support the funding of new affordable homes for rent on a 'one for one' basis, which is expected to deliver up to 100,000 new homes and support 200,000 jobs.

Statistics

38% of social tenants are well-off enough not to need Housing Benefit and over 800,000 tenants are in full-time work.
Nearly 60% of social housing tenants who are couples with children do not claim Housing Benefit.
Therefore many social tenants will be able to meet the cost of the mortgage after allowing for the discount.

Source: Department for Communities and Local Government - 2011

Quotes

‘Whilst we welcome the government’s commitment to tackle our housing crisis, today’s announcement falls far short of the quarter of a million new homes we need each year just to meet demand......We are concerned that schemes to help first-time buyers and council tenants will simply encourage people to overextend themselves, while doing nothing to address the sky-high cost of housing."

Shelter chief executive Campbell Robb, responding to the Government's housing strategy announcement – November 2011

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Ana Fri 15-Feb-13 11:36:08

I think Gransnetters are capable of accessing a link, Ivanoe - I can't imagine why you felt you had to copy and paste the content! hmm

Movedalot Fri 15-Feb-13 11:51:44

I might have posted on this forum but something puts me off grin

Riverwalk Fri 15-Feb-13 11:55:51

Are pensioners being sent to Mount Kilimanjaro? grin

Ivanhoe Fri 15-Feb-13 12:12:51

Ana , I copied and pasted the written piece because it puts things in perspective.

And so I though some of you might find it interesting.

Ana Fri 15-Feb-13 12:23:15

A link would have been less off-putting!

POGS Fri 15-Feb-13 12:44:51

Ivanhoe

I found it very interesting. It was refreshing to see that you accepted you could be wrong.

Well noted Ana

Ivanhoe Fri 15-Feb-13 12:47:53

Ana, I wanted to save people the trouble of clicking on it. I figured seeing the words right away in front, would be the more positive option.

Lilygran Fri 15-Feb-13 13:47:33

If you're going to copy and paste whole articles, can I suggest you cut the irrelevant bits? The last four inches in this case.