Bedroom Tax

Good luck with the move ayse hope it goes well.

That document, which was obviously written last June or July, still claims that "mixed age couples who are already receiving Pension Credit when this change is introduced will be protected".

It has become quite clear in recent weeks that this "protection" will only last as long as that elegibility is not broken. As I pointed out above, once that elegibility is broken for some reason, the said pensioners will have to apply for Universal Credit in the future.

Given that that very misleading statement has not been amended - and indeed, was still being repeated by Government ministers as recently as last week - then I think it is fair to say that the rest of the content of that document should be treaded with caution.

Groups such as Age Concern and Citizen Advice have voiced their concerns. However, I am not aware that their worries have yet been addressed. To be honest, it feels like the Government is determined to go ahead with this regardless, adopting a "suck it and see" approach.

I have pasted the following paragraph from a Citizens Advice Bureau document (it was in a PDF file, so no direct link). It carries Tuesday's date (13th Feb), and shows one of the key areas that they want to see resolved:

No entitlement to Pension Credit for mixed age couples (Universal Credit Regulations 2013, Part 1,
Regulation 3)
A couple with one above pension age and one below pension age (a ‘mixed-age’ couple) are currently
entitled claim pension credit. Under Universal Credit, a mixed age couple will not be entitled to state
pension credit and will effectively be treated as a working age household, with a benefit entitlement that is
more than £110 lower per week. Requiring the younger of the couple to seek work or engage in work
related activity is understandable, but removing entitlement to pension credit without adding a pensioner
addition into universal credit deprives the elder of the couple of their entitlement. This could be resolved
with the inclusion pensioner premium within UC for such couples.

Quick update - since that last post, I have found a more worrying document.

On the positive side, the number of people affected appears to have fallen to 67,000.

On the negative side, it looks like these couples could be affected sooner than previously expected:

www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/67000-pensioners-to-be-hit-by-bedroom-tax/6525753.article

This subject is finally starting to make the headlines:

Bedroom tax: Pensioners WILL lose out
16 Feb 2013 20:00

The Sunday People has discovered that although they will escape housing benefit cuts in April, many will be caught in the net from October

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioners-will-suffer-bedroom-tax-1713692

The Department of Work and Pensions issued a denial, but quite frankly it isn't worth the paper it is written on (or would have been written on before computers )!

Just wondering how many spare bedrooms there are in Buckingham Palace

This document from the Housing Organisation lists those who will be affected.

It seems especially unfair on families who share custody of children as only one family can count the children as being part of their household.

Bedroom Tax

As a live-alone Gran in a 2 bed house,I'd gladly move to a 1 bed property,but I am not fully able and have no transport,it's not what I live in but where I live that's most important to me.I value my privacy,like my own front door and 1 bed places are sheltered accommodation (no place for my beloved cat) or flats,around here.This has all kinds of disturbing aspects: what about fosterers? Parents who are separated and don't have custody but have their kids to stay? No provision for them.Good grief...and we thought Thatcher was bad!!

In a previous life I worked for a housing association working a points system. I always felt sorry for seperated fathers who, when offspring came to stay, had to give up their bed and sleep on the sofa. This was on the grounds that it wasn't fair for the child to claim for two bedrooms - one with each parent. It was even worse for those in studio flats who could never have their kids to stay.

Oh, and I think children of opposite sex could only share a room up to age seven, I heard this will be raised to ten. Too old.

i am fortunate to own my home and would hate to be consigned to a one-bed house. Relatives come to stay from all over the UK and beyond. Where would I put them? As King Lear said:
'Allow not Nature more than Nature needs, man's life is cheap as beast's.'

I have read all your comments on the Bedroom Tax and agree with you that it is insane, but you have all looked at it how it affects pensioners, I met a young woman the other day, who was telling me in some distress about her situation, she is married with 2 children living in a small 2 bedroom flat, with no outside area for the children to play in, her local council Medway has a policy of not rehousing to 3 bedrooms until the children over 10 even though they are different sexes, she says her husband works but is on low wages. she worries about the children not getting any fresh air and feels that her situation is hopeless, she sees no future and says she will be stuck where they are without hope for years, if they had 3 bedrooms they would pay the bedroom tax, which would be imoossible for them.

adie a good point. We do seem to have concentrated on the losers in this forum but there will be winners too. There are people much worse of than the one you mention even, those in B & B accommodation or already overcrowded. Although this tax does seem very unfair to some it will benefit others. A choice has to be made between those with young familes living with them and those without. A tough call

If you own your house and you have made a decision to downsize even though the GCs come for Xmas and Easter no one makes this fuss. It's looked on as a good move releasing a family house in areas where there are good schools and then with the money released you buy a bed sette and some sleeping bags and inflatable mattresses. But if its council housing it's the wicked government depriving people of their family visiting. I cannot understand why people think that because they rent they own. The young families packed into B andB are just more entitled to council run properties than two people in a three bedroom property. A private landlord would have no qualms about giving them notice. My DD was given notice twice while renting privately once because the owner wanted to improve the property and once because she wanted to live there herself because they had made it so attractive.

I would love to have two bedrooms, to spread out in but when I divorced I could only afford a one bedroomed flat with which I am very happy as I cannot now hoard. I have never been able to have any of my six grandchildren to stay and we have survived. I get really annoyed when people want more than their fair share of anything and expect the taxpayer - please remember the government itself has no money to dole out - such as me in my one bedroomed flat has to contribute.

But under this scheme, families will have to move house no end of times, as their family first grows, then shrinks.

Great in theory (on the face of it), but in reality it would be an absolute nightmare, and cost a fortune to both landlord and tenants.

Landlords will have the costly task of making properties habitable each time one is vacated. In the past, the majority of tenants made great improvements to their home over the years. However, knowing that they will not be in a property long-term will probably lead to a much larger number simply 'trashing' the place.

Then there is the fact that social housing is generally let totally unfurnished - and frequently barely habitable. Not even a cooker. The tenants, who if they are entitled to help with their rent, clearly don't have money to spare, will struggle to decorate, then carpet/curtain this chain of properties. Nor is there any guarantee that their cookers/fridges/beds/sofas will fit each new property.

These changes will cause a lot of misery, but do nothing to address the underlying problem: there are simply not enough houses available to rent at prices that can be afforded by those on a low income.

As for the elderly, how many able-bodied elderly couples do you know who have voluntarily downsized to a tiny, one-bedroomed property? I'm willing to bet that there are very few!

i dont agree with the bedroom tax

slightly off topic .....lots of families seem to think each child should have their own room now
i shared a room with my brother and sister for years when i was young

Aspen please keep making that point, it is our money not the government's! This seems to be forgotten by a lot of people (I don't mean on this forum) and if the people living on welfare and makeing demands were to understand that it was their friends and neighbours who were paying for them, some of them might see it differently. I have seen far too many on the television and heard on the radio who seem to think that because they want something they should have it. I know not all claimants are like that but some of them really are.

Off subject but today we saw a couple of volunteers collecting rubbish from the grass, surely this is something the unemployed could do?

What can one say in the face of such comments? I give up.

Plenty of people move frequently. Think forces families. I don't know many people in social housing but those I do know always leave me stunned at their belief the Council should repair broken toilet seats or light fittings when I would go and repair such things myself. and I do know someone who lives on her own in a 2 bed roomed house and let's out the room(illegally I believe)while her son went to live with her husband and at sixteen made sure he got his own place. A family of three with three properties , five bedrooms between them and all expecting to buy the properties from the council .She is a friend but there are subjects I have to avoid when talking to her.

I worked from the age of 15 to last year when I became too ill. For all those years I paid tax and national insurance. My husband still works but only part time as I need looking after.

I live in a two up two down. I can't move because my condition would be very detrimentally affected. I am not making demands on my friends and neighbours nor expecting more than my fair share but I do claim the benefits that I'm entitled to.

Stansgran As a landlord I expect to pay for repairs in my properties unless damage was directly and deliberately caused by the tenant, so why shouldn't families in social housing expect the council to undertake repairs?

I pay rent in exchange for living in the property. I keep the property in good condition. I have tenants liability insurance in case I damage something but other than that my landlord pays for repairs....afterall it's his property and his capital.

The same goes for social housing. The social housing provider owns the housing stock.

I've just posted a chart on the Pictures thread which is very relevant to this discussion.

I agree with the so called bedroom tax, why should people who are working and paying taxes pay for people on benefits who want an extra bedroom. The government is not forcing people to move just to contribute some money for the extra bedrooms. Perhaps exceptions should be made for disabled people and pensioners.

If you were working and paying your own rent you would rent somewhere you could afford not somewhere you could not afford.

Also I think benefits for over 2 children should be stopped, if people want a big family they should pay for them themselves.

It seems to me only people on benefits can afford to have as many children as they want because the state will pay for them, if there was a cap they might think twice.

There was an interesting article in the Telewag today about this. One thing the writer said was that if you own a house and it becomes to large for your family and you can't afford it you downsize, as many of us do. Why do people feel they have a right to stay in a larger house, if they don't need it, without paying to do so. They have a choice - pay for the larger house like owners of large houses or downsize to affordable housing as owners of houses do. I don't get all thick stuff about having lived in that house for years. So have we, but we know that we will soon have to downsize for financial reasons so what is the difference?