Is a child murderer vulnerable?

Thanks Ana

Notso, wise words from a well-informed woman.

notso that is exactly right , its good to see you

I can't believe anyone could do anything so vile to a child,but an interesting comment was made after the baby P case ,the just of which was: everyone is aghast at what has happened to Baby P, but if he had lived he would probably have become an abuser himself, and then HE would be vilified. We need to rehabilitate offenders.

It's true that a percentage of adults who abuse children were abused themselves in childhood.

It is also true that vast numbers of children who experience abuse, grow up to become loving, caring, responsible, non-violent and non-abusive adults.

There are no excuses. We all have choices.

It is not true to say that Baby Peter would inevitably have become an abuser. Most abusers may have suffered abuse, but most people who suffer abuse do not go on to become abusers. Those who survive are often horrified at the thought that they will be judged in this way.

I agree that we need to rehabilitate offenders. I am sure this man should have been better protected in prison but I find it very difficult to find any sympathy in my heart.

Crossed posts Notso

Sorry should not have said probably, but possibly. I am sure that many abused people turn out to be perfectly caring adults, but there must be some reason for a person to behave in such a despicable way. Yes we all have choices, but fortunately most of us do not even consider harming a child.It always seems strange that the courts have to decide if someone is sane or not when they have committed a crime of obscene violence. I cannot think how anyone who does that to a child can possibly be described as sane.

It is hard to understand I agree agapanthus, and tempting to think of such people as insane, but I'm not sure that is helpful either. For one thing, it does a great injustice to the vast majority of people with mental health problems who would never harm anyone (except perhaps themselves). For another thing, I think that by labelling the perpetrators insane we enable them to evade responsibility for their actions. I think the simple truth is that all humans are capable of great evil; the reasons why a few enact such evil while most don't is the million dollar question.

aga I was abused as a child..................

Not something I have broadcast on here, a few of my close friends do know of my past, but its not something that I generally talk about.

Yes I would say that there must be reasons for a person to behave in such a way but not being abused in all cases............................ I consider myself to be a caring and supportive parent and Grandparent and protecting my family is what is uppermost in my being.

So please dont paint us all with the same brush. Until you have walked in an abused persons shoes please dont try to tarnish us as all being capable of abuse.

glass, you are absolutely right. A lot of rubbish is peddled in the media about abusers having been abused themselves, leading a lot of people to believe that all those who've been abused must therefore be bound to follow the same path, which is of course not true at all!

ana

glass yes sorry, I did correct my original post, and was only quoting an idea that was written in an article.From what I have read , many violent criminals have suffered violence and deprived childhoods. I was not saying that everyone who has been abused becomes an abuser, merely that there must be a reason for some people to behave in the way they do. I am not saying that everybody with mental illness is evil either. isn't there a term " criminally insane "? Which would describe people who inflict torture on others .

That's what I was trying to say glass, I know how hard it can be to have these things suggested by the media as it affects someone in my close family as well

I have every sympathy with anyone who has been abused and cannot imagine how horrific the experience must be.

Sadly aga I think the majority of abusers are extremely sane. I believe this man was in prison rather than hospital, which suggests that he was not deemed to have a mental illness.

Yes, but those accused of such crimes are examined to determine whether they are in fact insane. If they are, and are found guilty, they're sent to a secure mental hospital. If not, they go to prison. We may think someone would have to be insane to commit such terrible acts, but we have to accept the decision of psychiatrists as to whether they are, or were, actually of sound mind.

My reply was to agapanthus - came in a bit late!

To recognise that someone is a psycopath (which must be some kind of mental illness) is not saying that all people with mental illness are psychopaths. Just thought I 'd add this too explain that I am not tarring abused people or people with mental illness with the same brush!!!

It's tricky when posts cross isn't it.

There is a lovely book called 'Strong at the Broken Places' by Linda T Sandon. You don't have to read it to know what the message is. I have been inspired and in awe of the way that many people who were abused as children have transformed their own and others' lives by turning their childhood experiences into being protective and caring of their own and other children, being able to cherish them because they have a heightened awareness of what abuse can do to a child.

Glass

, glass. when has described you perfectly.

And all credit to them,but I can understand (though not from personal experience) that suffering abuse could seriously damage a person and cause them to behave in the opposite way.

The majority of child sexual abusers are not criminally insane. They are found in families, neighbours, helping organisations, amongst communities and are usually indistinguishable until a disclosure about their behaviour is made. If they were mad or psychopathic, children and their protectors would most likely be wary of their 'strangeness' and avoid them.

aga psychopathy is a form of mental disorder but it is a personality disorder (there are many different types) and not a mental illness. People with personality disorders are as responsible for their actions as anyone else.