Thatcher has died

Mishap the comment about the "bombing of a retreating ship* just goes to show how readily these sort of myths are spread. Even the captain of the Belgrano has admitted that they were not retreating, but circling the area, waiting their chance. Thirty years on and this sort of rubbish is still being spouted and no doubt believed.

Yes, vq and Tegan. We needed the collective strength of our unions, fighting for a decent wage and to try to keep our industries from being shut down. Did anyone notice the statistic given on the Wright Stuff programme earlier - in the last year, UK workers' average pay has risen by just over 1%, whilst their employers' has risen by an average 16%!

I read an article in the paper a long time before the war pointing out that there was the possibility of an invasion, so was confused by the apparent shock when it happened. She was only re elected because we'd 'won a war'. I can rememeber lying in bed shaking with fear when the word 'missiles' was mentioned on Newsnight; thinking that all missiles were nuclear. Every month we dreaded my ex husband getting a letter saying he'd lost his job [and he was/is a top engineer in his field]. He used to sadly say that, if we lived in another country eg Germany he would be highly respected but living here he was just a lowly engineer. Since those days people in this country have frowned on any job that involves getting their hands dirty, as if we all should be bankers and accountants. And, given that the unions were replaced by bankers I know which of the two I prefer. Wasn't it round about that time as well that we were all encouraged to live on credit?

A union is a group of workers joining together for their mutual benefit. So when some of you speak about 'the unions' you're actually talking about the workers. Should the workers not have the right to say and campaign for how they think the country should be run even if it goes against the views of the government of the day?

The workers took action because they felt threatened. No matter what their fears they couldn't have imagined what was about to happen in their worst nightmares. Maggie was determined to break the workers because those in power don't want the masses to be in control. What's the best way to break a groups power? Take away their livelihood. When you're worrying where the next meal is coming from for your children you forget about everything else.

The phrase 'The Unions' has been used ever since the first unions were formed to suggest anti-patriotic trouble causers rather than workers uniting for mutual benefit. From the Tolpuddle Martyrs to modern times the unions have been seen as a threat by the establishment.

absent Yes, the tabloids and their vile headlines, like "Gotcha", which many people found highly amusing.

Nothing wrong with patrioisim .

I thought the term Argies was used only by tabloid newspapers who had limited space in their headlines – and, of course, the arch tabloid of the time was deeply jingoistic. Strange and wrong footing to read it here.

MiceElf You're not the only one. Ironically, after admiring Mrs T for "taking on" the the Argies, the unions and lily livered politicians, the same posting refers to others as "the hate brigade".

"I can't articulate ............. why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain, but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship -- it's just not British." Russell Grant.

Well said that man!

An interesting assessment from a younger person.

I really do think she was a ghastly woman, which would not have mattered if she had not been in such a position of power.

What has the EU rebate got to do with it?

William Hague £75bn

trendy I heard on the radio this morning that paying for her funeral is very little compared to the rebate she got from the EU for all of us.

I was incensed to hear that Thatcher's Family may 'make a contribution ' to her funeral costs. They are extremely rich and should be financing at least the majority of the costs. I had no choice but to pay over £5,000 for the funerals of my DH and very sadly, less than 2 years later, that of my lovely DD. Carole and Mark should honour their responsibilities, just as the rest of us do.

When- brilliant article by Russell Brand. Turns out his brain is in his head after all!

when what thoughtful, well written article. Thanks.

Am I the only person who finds the use of the word Argies, highly distasteful?

gilly I agree with you when you asy "I end by saying I have very little faith in any political party at the moment and would not know where to turn should a general election be called tomorrow." I might well spoil my ballot paper, again.

Could someone please confirm for me who sold of North Sea Gas? DH said it was Gordon Brown but someone on here seems to think it was Mrs T.

I think we all agree that the money from the sale of council houses should have been spent on replacing the housing stock.

I don't think Mrs T was responsible for inflation, I think that was before her wasn't it?

I agree that the unions had too much power when she took over the reins. It was necessary for someone to take on people like Arthur Scargill who said something like - we are not striking for what we deserve but for what we can get. I'm sure someone will come up with the correct quotation, please? Apparently there are now 3 NUM leaders in, I think, Nottingham on huge salaries with just one member, .

I agree about the bankers but think that if what they did had been illegal or if they had been properly regulated it would not have happened. It appears their behaviour was immoral rather than illegal. I still think their auditors have a lot to answer for.

when great, insightful from Russell Brand? Intriguing, I quite like him. He does capture the spirit of the times - I was going to question a few of his claims but reading the first comment after the article, I could just copy and paste.

I often think in life how great it would be if we could go back and take the opposite tack, how would things have turned out with a 'what if?' I don't dispute that for many communities, centred on heavy industry, who's way of life was shattered, the effects of MT's economic policies were catastrophic. But what was to be done? The country was virtually bankrupt, there was no foreign investment, money had to be earned. Our industrial sector wasn't competitive, competition was coming from further afield from countries not dominated by unions. So does a bitter pill for some, prescribed for the greater good make sense? Much as I disliked MT at the time because I did understand the mindset of those areas, I do believe that she did what she did because she wanted Britain to recover and become a viable economic entity.

It wasn't the rich and privileged who gave her power, rather 'Mondeo Man', Mr & Mrs Average who were tired of being held to ransom by union demands and could actually see where that was getting us.

Whatever she was, she wasn't a hypocrite unlike most of the subsequent lot.

Thanks for this link, when. A personal view written with eloquence, insight and intelligence.

I admired her greatly. She took on the unions, the Argies and lily livered politicians and won.

I didn't agree with everything she did, especially the sale of council houses. This would have been fine if the money was used to build more, if you can afford to buy you should go out into the market place.

Towards the end of her `reign` I did feel she lost the plot and it was time for her to go.

To the hate brigade I say she never murdered anyone and for those who say she sent our troups to war for the Faulklands, I say it was a just war not like Tony Blair who truly does have blood on his hands.

A great, insightful article by Russell Brand here:

www.huffingtonpost.com/russell-brand/margaret-thatcher-our-unm_b_3046390.html

Last week we heard Mick Philpott described by a judge as having 'no moral compass'. Someone else lacking in this respect was undoubtedly Margaret Thatcher. IMHO she was a woman entirely lacking in compassion, humility and humanity.

Unlike some of these very young people celebrating on the street, I am old enough to remember the Thatcher era well. I worked in the voluntary, charitable sector at that time (in a suburban area) but I will never forget the distress caused by her wretched (and unworkable) Poll Tax, the hardships suffered by huge unemployment, the people handing back their homes to lenders because they were trapped in negative equity due to inflation - and at the same time the City traders were prospering.

Her supporters are now asking for her to be shown some dignity and respect in death. Unfortunately in life, she denied the same dignity and respect to thousands of her own countrymen and women whilst presenting herself as a great patriot.

We reap what we sow........

Sorry you felt like that about your father great nan.
Mine was not the best but still felt dreadfully upset but was only 16!

Do you not think was good to encourage people not to rely on the state to provide housing? My pet hate is seeing these families complaining about their rented accommodation and berating council for not providing! What happened to working hard and not having kids you can't afford?

We have so many singlemums set up in lovely houses whe does the money come from? I personally know several from my course.

They don't work don't see point when their lifestyle is funded! From my poor husbands hard earn pension of which half goes to taxman!

Sel agree with everything you say regarding the "unions running the country" and I can see us going straight back there once Ed Miliband
( the union puppet) gets into power.

I have many reasons to dislike Mrs Thatcher . I was a working single parent for much of her "reign" and she did nothing very little for me. I lived and worried in an extremely deprived part of the country and saw first hand the effects of the miners strike with food parcels being distributed and my neighbours having to literally burn their garden fence in order to heat their house. However being older and hopefully wiser (and also the owner of a small business) It worries me the kind of powers that the huge unions could have with a labour government and once again we could see the ridiculous non jobs created in the public sector with the country being held to ransom on the back of ridiculous wage demands.

I end by saying I have very little faith in any political party at the moment and would not know where to turn should a general election be called tomorrow.

The auction of the North Sea gas fields was a badly run fiasco but you can't turn the clock back on that any more than on the closure of heavy industries.