Polly Toynbee says...

There is a very good John Lanchester article in the LRB this month of the extent of the banks' culpability in the financial crisis, with some interesting stuff about PPI.
www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n13/john-lanchester/are-we-having-fun-yet
I find it amazing that the ConDems and the press have managed to pin the blame for the global financial crisis on the last government and that Labour have not managed to get the truth across. Of course, they should have been tougher on the banking industry, but I don't think the other parties would have behaved differently.

Nonu, I don't see it is possible to deny that Obama's racial heritage doesn't play an unpleasant part in some of the antagonism towards him. I agree with your point that we are all equal, but sadly not everyone shares that view, and denial of that takes us nowhere. I agree with others about drones etc, and he did promise to abolish Guantanamo didn't he. The US right wingers are as scary to me as the people they rage about.
Back to Polly's article - I don't accept the last government bankrupted the country. The money was invested in the country and that's what we need more of. I'm no economist but even I've noticed that all of Europe and the US have been hit by recession for which I don't see the last government to be totally responsible. We need to find a way forward that doesn't demonise chunks of our own society. I don't support folks who have a sense of entitlement that the country owes them a lifestyle they don't work for - and that includes multi nationals and the very rich, who avoid paying tax, as well as the much smaller problem of benefit fraud.

I agree, eloethan. My disappointment lies in the same things with those two. I think I'm getting very cynical about politicians, but some of them seemed to actually have principles at one time. There seems to be less and less evidence of that now.

Silly question. Scrub that.

Is it possible to know too many American liberals?

It's probably unrealistic to expect politicians/leaders to be able to make radical changes very quickly but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to stand by pledges that they've made before being elected.

Nick Clegg, for instance, pledged to abolish tuition fees. Whether you agree with tuition fees or not, I believe it was totally unprincipled of him to support substantially raising them.

President Obama said he would close Guantanamo and there is still no sign of this happening.

I am also disgusted at the widespread and increased use of drones during Obama's term of office. For me he has been a massive disappointment.

Bags you obviously don't know too many American liberals.

I believe the argument is that as his middle name is 'Hussein' he must be a muslim.

You only had to see the reasoning of the opposition to the Medicare Bill to realise that a scarily large number of Americans are completely irrational.

Safer that way, envious!

Bags I agree with you,but I usually stay clear of political discussions so that's all I'll say.

I've always thought American liberals were more right wing than British tories. And really right wing Americans are off all scales of reasonableness.

Comments on US sites definitely bring his colour into it, nonu, also his religion - which is seen in some circles as crypto-islamic and aimed at deliberately destroying the US, Christianity and civilisation as we know it.

T o me we all created equal in God"s eyes ! hmmmm

I really do not think we need to bring the man"s colour into it !

Nooooooooooooo , Bluebell , I mean like blair !!!!!!!!

Nonu - you mean as opposed to Bush, Clinton, Reagan etc? Obama's main problem is being black in a country which is still in large areas deeply and offensively racist.

I wonder if Obama is a bit like Blair , tells the people what they want to hear .

Oh yes, Deeda! My American friend is more rabidly right wing than I had ever thought, and her posts on FB about Obama and pro Romney were so offensive I had to block them in the end. I share your experience; we are left of centre but stopped talking politics last time we met, for the sake of friendship. Which has cooled a little!

I don't think Obama was ever going to make much headway. I've found when talking politics with my American son in law that Americans seem to think that anyone with the tiniest socialist tendencies is a rabid communist. I'm really very middle of the road politically, yet he finds some of my ideas way to the left of Lenin.

One comment under the article points out that the UK's debt was lowest in the G8 at the time of the crash and lower than when Thatcher was in power.

Its no good doing wonderful things if you bankrupt yourself as a result. It doesn't work on a personal level and it doesn't work on a government basis either.

Greece was lavish in its welfare and benefit spending. Now even parents who were comfortably off are having to put their children in orphanages because they cannot afford to feed them.

I would have gone for David Miliband, (I never saw the Iraq war in the same black and white terms as many of our friends having long been following what was happening in Iraq, especially to the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs, under Saddam), but I think he became impossible once Ed got in. I like Yvette Cooper, but press would be impossible round her and Ed B I think. I think Ed M has the brains, but can't get past the fact that he just doesn't sound like a leader.
The right-wing press is so powerful that Labour politicians have to be practically superhuman to please them (and it doesn't last long).

Curious isn't it mamie. I don't suppose any one would disagree that the last Labour government didn't get it all right, were perfect and particularly were right about the Iraq war - BUT, they did some smashing stuff in relation to education, children's centres, NHS and I do wish the current leadership group would say that loud and clear. Instead, it seems they apologise for everything and look weak and deceitful. I couldn't vote anything other than Labour, as that's where my heart is, in addition to which I live in a tory/labour marginal, with a good Labour MP. I heard Ed Milliband speak before the leadership election, and liked him. I also liked Andy Burnham, but not Ed Balls or David Milliband as possible leaders. I find Ed Balls a bit of a bully boy type, and he and David Milliband's links to the Iraq war/ blair/brown conflicts made me want the party to have a leader not so contaminated by those issues. I still like Ed Milliband, but can't say I'm impressed by him as Labour leader, and I still see Ed Balls as a bit of a bully boy. Oh dear......

I agree with her too. Massive of good stuff underway in education, standards improving, sure start, satisfaction with NHS at all time high. Couldn't believe the lengthy leadership election, lack of focus and navel-gazing while ConDems and press trashed what they had achieved.

I'm with Polly and the research. I don't understand why the current Labour leadership isn't answering the constant criticism of over spending by the last government, in a positive and combative manner. Politics is becoming increasingly disappointingly negative, dishonest, slick and full of career politicians, most of whom make the bulk of their wages outside the House of Commons.