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(19 Posts)
bluebell Thu 04-Jul-13 08:16:15

Is it ever all right for an army to depose a democratically elected government

absent Thu 04-Jul-13 08:17:47

I think in the case of Egypt, it wasn't just the army. But, as a rule, no. Look what happened after the assassination of Sadat.

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 08:45:14

I wonder how much the military was involved in whipping up anti-government frenzy - now they can say they are merely responding to the demands of the people. Incidentally, there was no sign of any unrest in the little town of Nuweiba when I was there last month.
If I were an optimist, I would say that perhaps the tide was turning against misogynistic Islamic regimes but I doubt if the oppression of women was high on the agenda of most of the men involved.

annodomini Thu 04-Jul-13 08:48:26

They are between the devil and the deep blue sea: the army on the one hand, the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood on the other.

Nelliemoser Thu 04-Jul-13 08:52:31

Just what political intrigue were you up to out there Greatnan? Snorkeling indeed! Greatnan goes snorkeling and they have another coup! wink wink

whenim64 Thu 04-Jul-13 08:56:51

The military aren't taking over, according to last night's news. A temporary technocratic group headed by a judge will govern whilst further elections are arranged. I hope so!

j08 Thu 04-Jul-13 09:14:28

Did they not realise he was muslim before they voted him in? confused

What did they expect?!

I think the army was acting on behalf of the majorityt of the people. What else could they do? Start shooting the demonstrators?

j08 Thu 04-Jul-13 09:16:59

I just wish the World Service would stoip going on and on about it.

Yes I know it's important. I know where the Suez Canal is, before anyone starts trying to educate.

Greatnan Thu 04-Jul-13 09:17:37

Last time I went to Egypt a bomb was detonated in Sharm and the time before that the Hilton, Taba, was bombed. Luckily, I was in other resorts both times!
I must admit I had to resist the temptation to ask the all-male staff about their attitudes to women! At least I was only asked once where my husband was. If only Scandinavia had coral!

bluebell Thu 04-Jul-13 09:21:52

I'm really struggling with this one. There is something fundementally wrong with a democratically elected government being removed without an election and armies in power don't exactly have a great track record (I know they say there are going to be elections)
On the other hand, the president was granting enormous powers and influence to the Moslem Brotherhood. But how can I logically let my antipathy to them override the basic principle? Look at Chile - that was a democratically elected left wing government, ousted with US help and look what happened next

j08 Thu 04-Jul-13 09:33:27

Clegg: " "We don’t support coups. We support democracy. We’re worried about the violence".

Yes. I think that's why the army finally stepped in.

Maybe this judge will be the best option in the long run. They don't seem to have anyone else.

Nelliemoser Thu 04-Jul-13 10:25:48

Do they not have the equivalent of votes of no confidence in the government? Its all a rather dangerous mess.

BAnanas Thu 04-Jul-13 11:56:50

I agree with bluebell's thoughts about deposing a democratically elected government, the US did Chile no favours in toppling Allende, Pinochet was a vile dictator.

Nevertheless, the Moslem Brotherhood seem very questionable and they don't seem to represent the hopes and aspiration of the younger generation. I don't think Morsi and his cohorts do women any favours, allegedly there have been 100 or so women who have been sexually assaulted, possibly raped around Tahir Square in the past week. This seems to be some sort of intimidation tactic to keep them off the streets, it's quite apparent that this party have a hardline attitude towards the role and presence of women. I also believe the minority Christians who have been part of Egyptian society for so long now live in fear.

I think there was a lot of over optimism regarding the Arab Spring. Having swept away autocratic governments they seem to replace them something equally as bad.

It would be so encouraging if the Egyptians could vote in some democratic and secular government who treats both women, minorities and minority faiths favourably.

Movedalot Thu 04-Jul-13 12:32:17

Yes BAnanas when we first went to Egypt we were told there were no problems between the different religions but last year our Egyptian Christian friends were really worried about the threat of the Islamists. It is very hard for them as they were educated outside Egypt and therefore have experience of other democracies.

MrsJamJam Thu 04-Jul-13 14:10:27

We went to Egypt last year and met educated, middle class muslims and christians. They were all so proud of their recent revolution and had such optimism for their country. This was before the election that brought the muslim brotherhood to power. We were told that the biggest need was for education as outside the big cities a huge percentage of the population are barely literate. I suspect this gives a fertile breeding ground for fundamentalism, and high levels of unemployment mean that keeping women at home and out of competition for jobs has an obvious appeal.

I know that at the time we listened to our egyptian friends optimism about the future and worried for them as it didn't seem so straightforward to us.

Deedaa Thu 04-Jul-13 21:48:51

I suppose the problem with democratic elections is that it's great if the person you want gets elected. Whether it is a good thing for the army to step in is debateable. Should the army take over indefinitely? I really don't know.

j08 Fri 05-Jul-13 22:18:39

Oh my God! Army opened fire. What a situation. sad

Elegran Fri 05-Jul-13 22:43:49

We have not heard from the young Egyptian woman who was posting a lot on Gransnet a wee while ago. I hope she and her family are OK.

absent Fri 05-Jul-13 22:44:02

That's what armies do. They are not trained in crowd control