Should Jon Venables have been freed?

I found this article interesting. It is about two fourteen year old boys who murdered a sixty three year old woman. They are currently in court in South Australia for her murder and one of them said he wanted to kill someone since he was in grade one. Also interesting is the different reaction by the boys when the woman had been killed.

These boys are older than JV and RT so it gives some insight on why one boy may be able to be rehabilitated but maybe the other one will always have problems.

It is terribly sad to read these types of stories, especially when children are murdered.

Absent " information that probably should not be in the public domain and certainly should not be seized upon by the media. Partial disclosure, on the other hand, would probably be misleading."
I'm afraid you've lost me here.
What sort of information do you mean? Information that might lead to Venables being identified? I can't see how disclosing the criteria that are used in the process would do that.
Tonight we learned that the inquiry into the North Wales child abuse has been published in a heavily redacted form.
This has made me wonder what is the difference between censorship and redaction, and who decides what will be censored redacted.

nonu I am sure every parent can empathise with families who have lost a child , particularly in such a hideous crime.

But the loss of any child through murder is appalling and sadly there have been too many children lost this way. The public and /or media seem to make far more of Jamie Bulger's tragic death because it was perpetrated by children. Those children were terribly damaged themselves. Understanding that does not mean you cannot also feel sympathy for the parent's of the murdered child too.

When - thank you for sharing your understanding of the processes involved with offenders like JV and RT. Your comments about Denise Bulger reminded me of Winnie Johnson, whose son's body is probably somewhere on Saddleworth Moor. The constant publicity about the two crimes, and the people who committed them must be like picking at an open sore. I'm not suggesting the media should stop reporting but wouldn't it be great to have a more intelligent and socially responsible media to inform our debates. Thanks again When, for explaining the way JV's parole has been assessed, considered, and the way the support and monitoring will work. I accept the parole board made the best decisions they could on the evidence they had. I don't envy the people involved in JV's supervision. I wish I felt more optimistic about JV's ability to take advantage of the support and challenges that will be available to him.

Surely we all feel sorry for the poor parents. That doesn't prevent a sensible - and sensitive - discussion about the future of one of the perpetrators.

janeainsworth I can't see how there could be full disclosure of the process without revealing information that probably should not be in the public domain and certainly should not be seized upon by the media. Partial disclosure, on the other hand, would probably be misleading.

I repeat , I feel so sorry for the poor parents .

It must be like a horrible dream they can never awake from .

Gagagran the parents have input through each stage and are told about parole applications, visited by victim support workers from police and probation, and invited to contribute to MAPPA public protection meetings after release. Licence conditions are shared, suggested and listened to, so for example, if a parent is worried about bumping into the offender in their community or a town centre that they frequent, the parole board will hear suggestions or licence conditions banning the offender from certain areas. Usually, they have thought of those conditions already. These conditions have to be proportionate to the seriousness f the concerns. As an example, one dangerous offender who was entitled to be automatically released had to face instructions from that if he stepped over a certain county line, the police had authority to arrest and/or taser him.

They are sympathetic to views like 'this offender will do it again and should not be released' and will explain their reasoning to the parents, but assessments of risk of committing further serious offences must rest with them, and they must put risk management plans in place to minimise risk if the offender is allowed to be released. That will be explained to the parents, too.

Denise Bulger has been irreparably harmed by the horrendous way her child was killed - who wouldn't be? She appears not to want to let things lie with Venables, for her son's sake. I'm at a loss to know what would ease her pain, as she seems to be in constant torment. Would warehousing him in prison forever help her? I tend to think this wouldn't be enough, either.

I have found this a fascinating thread and particularly the information when has provided. I had always wondered whether these two obviously damaged 10 year-olds had been damaged further by what the law prescribed for them on conviction and it has been illuminating to read this thread.

It is impossible to imagine what pain and grief and maybe even guilt, the parents of Jamie have suffered over the years. However, I do find the constant quotes in the press from them over the fate of the two perpetrators rather disturbing.

when can you tell us how much, if any input they have over what happens to JV and RT and how much information they are given about them now?

Joan just to be clear, I wasn't questioning whether Venables should have been released or not. Clearly, if due process has been followed, then he should.
What I was questioning was the apparent opacity of the process to the lay person.

In answer to the OP question, 'yes' if normal procedures were followed and he qualified. The crime he committed as a 10 year old child should not be relevant.

Our law is cold, logical, and unemotional, which is as it should be. If you want retribution and payback in law, then Sharia law is for you.

Frankly it is neither here nore there , of what I aprove of

Ok. I did not know that. I hope his family can help him and protect him.. Its sounds as if they want too.I hope they succeed. He deserves that.

I was addressing you, Nonu - laidback posted while I was writing.

Who Are you actually addressing greatnan ?

laidback both boys were educated to GCSE standard and I know Thompson got some exam passes. He has reintegrated into life in the community and works (the last time I heard it reported at a conference), having gone to college. He and his family moved well away from Merseyside, having accepted he could never settle nearby.

O.K. I just got the impression you did not approve of their release.

I am not sure that these two lads can ever be re habilitated into real life. They were so, so young when convicted of a hideous crime. They have grown up in custody. There education is very limited, I imagine. There emotional education is null and void.I cannot remember much family support. I remember watching a documentary years ago about how they tried to release the child to the police so he would be found. I would hope that they would both be monitored 24 hrs a day, forever. I am sad to say I do not believe a happy outcome. I hope I am prooved wrong.

Precisly what happened to them .

there are more out there a lot more leaned than i , so I guess they kinow what is best.

I am sure we are all happy that it did not happen to our own children, but what do you suggest should have happened to Thompson and Venables?

I do whole heart heartedly , so glad it did not happen to a child of mine.

They were ten when they committed the crime, Nonu. In many countries they would have been below the age of criminality. What do you suggest should have happened to them? I am sure we all sympathise totally with the parents.

MY heart goes out to thje parents of the child and what was done to him ,
to see these two let out .

Flick - your story illustrates the weakness of the argument that if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear ( when discussing surveillance of all citizens). As you show, if a mistake is made, a life can be ruined before its rectified, and then it's too late

They committed this crime when they were children living in severely dysfunctional homes. One hopes that as adults they can understand that what they did as children must be seen as within the framework of their damaged upbringing.

I seem to remember that at the time of the crime reports on Jon Venables suggested a child who was already a withdrawn and lonely child. The effect of a damaging family life affects some children more than others.

I am wary of these assumptions that anyone who has a credit card payment to a child porn site is automatically a pervert. In this time of cloning cards and stealing identities, charging a payment for child pornography to someone else's card cannot be too difficult.

About ten years ago the father of an acquaintance was 'caught' on one of these trawls. When an unrecognised payment had come up on his card he had queried it immediately with his credit card company, who investigated it and repaid him.

A year later he was picked up by the police. It took him two years to prove to the police that he had not made the purchase and had queried it the as soon as it came up on his credit card. His house and computer were searched and completely devoid of anything that could be remotely considered of a paedophilic nature. In those two years he was vilified and attacked by local people, it broke his marriage, he couldn't see his grandchildren and came close to suicide.

About the same time DH had two mystery payments on his credit card. We queried them and got refunds, fortunately it was just a money raising scam but when I saw what was happening to my acquaintances father my blood ran cold.

Good point, Deedaa. Both Venables and Thompson have had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and received treatment for it in their teens. This has been reported by their solicitors in interviews over the years. Many offenders attempt suicide during offending behaviour treatment programmes.