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School lunches

(192 Posts)
j08 Fri 12-Jul-13 11:54:27

The founders of a restaurant chain have been brought in by the gov to do a "Jamie Oliver". It seems they think the lunches parents are providing are wholly responsible for childhood, and future, obesity.

I don't think it would be good to ban packed lunches. There will always be fussy eaters for whom having to eat a school meal will be stressful. Haven't they got enough stress to contend with already? Can't schools just lay down a few rules about what is and why isn't allowed in lunch boxes?

article InTergraph

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 12:23:20

Just depends what goes in said burgers, there are burgers... and burgers!

Having burgers for lunch today - home-made and I know what is in them! Fresh ground beef, an egg, spices and herbs and a handful of oats to make the meat go further. We often had those as a family. Cheap frozen burgers are made with total rubbish, sadly.

It's all very nice saying parents should have the choice to feed their children what they wish, but a permanent diet of poor food does have immense repercussion on kids and later adults in so many ways. So what is the answer, I do not know but something has to be done. The consequences of doing nothing are too dire not to.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 13:53:02

Just had a wee google. Tesco's cheapest frozen burgers contain the following:
Irish Beef (58%), Onion (12%), Beef Fat, Rusk (Wheat Flour; Salt), Water, Soya Protein Isolate, Salt, Onion Powder, Yeast, Sugar, Pepper Extract, Barley Malt Extract, Garlic Powder, Onion Extract.

That doesn't look like 'rubbish' to me. OK, it hasn't got as high a meat content as the best burger, but it's still perfectly edible and nourishing food. Not everyone can afford the best.

Going to see if I can find the ingredients listing for Macdonald's burgers now.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 13:59:45

Here you are. Just the facts:

Ingredients: 100% pure USDA inspected beef; no fillers, no extenders. Prepared with grill seasoning (salt, black pepper).

I think your post was unjustifiably alarmist, jura, as are other comments slating burgers.

Nelliemoser Sat 13-Jul-13 15:12:14

You cannot sensibly ban packed lunches.
Looking at the above it seems still that the key is the lack of a balanced diet. Cereals packed full of vitamins but 36% sugar. Fizzy sweetened drinks with no real nutrition. High fat food every day with few vegetables and fruit. far too many sweet foods.

I feel that parents need to encourage their children from weaning to eat
fruit and veg. The problem is lots of their parents don't eat this stuff either.

There will always be some children who do not take a good diet and have particular difficulties with food but with with the majority, unless parents get it right from the start I think that by the time the child is 5 and their tastes have not been challegened with fruit and veg etc its getting a bit late.

Serving good vegetable soup for school dinners perhaps?

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 17:08:15

Excellent news Bags - the lower meat content with added rusk is fine. As said I always add some oats to extend, and it is actually better for you.

Things may well have improved significantly since the recent meat scandal- I hope. There are plenty of burgers out there still, I'm sure, with some more dubious ingredients. McDonalds burgers are indeed good quality.

What do you call the best? The best nutritious food does not have to be expensive, I can assure you. Adding a large tin of lentils to bolognese makes it go twice as far, for instance, with added good protein - and so does a large tin of baked beans.

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 17:09:12

And poor nutrition is classless - I know many middle class children who are fed a very poor diet too.

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 17:37:58

It is a myth that nutritious and fresh food is very expensive btw.
Really.

noodles Sat 13-Jul-13 17:39:26

I'm not disputing your information granjura, but how do you know what these children are being fed?

I have absolutely no idea what my neighbours feed their children, either at family meals, or in lunchboxes and wouldn't know how to find out (other than peeping through windows). smile

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 17:54:23

Teachers know, as many eat with the kids every day - which I did for all the years I taught. And the reason why teachers are concerned. Jamie Oliver knows, because he studied what kids ate at school too.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:05:00

Not everyone agrees that adding grains to meat makes it more nutritious. Followers of the paleo or primal diet (I don't) would disagree, for instance. While I don't follow such a diet (too fond of bread, and flapjack), I think they have a point.

It is also argued by such people that we don't need to eat fruit every day, nor even every week. I think their concern is that fruit contains too much sugar. When I looked at the picture which came with the BBC article at the start of the thread, my first thought was that there was far too much fruit in that child's 'supposed' lunchbox. The poor kid would have constant diarrhoea with that amount of fruit every day, not to mention the problem of fruit acids and sugar on her teeth. I didn't think it was a particularly 'healthy' lunchbox at all.

noodles Sat 13-Jul-13 18:05:14

I understand the Jamie Oliver connection, and that some teachers have lunch duties. I'm sure you've seen many more lunch boxes than I have, but that being so, what sort of things are these middle class children being given to eat? Is it the sort of thing people are complaining about generally - crisps, Kit-Kats, sweet fizzy drinks etc, or something different.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:07:26

But teachers don't know what kids eat at home. That was noodles point. And anyway, it's none of their business.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:08:01

Sorry, noodles, crossed posts.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:10:04

Just realised it was a Telegraph article at the start, but there was one on the BBC online news as well.

noodles Sat 13-Jul-13 18:16:23

That's OK Bags My own children's lunch boxes were not models of perfection. My children had a substantial breakfast and and good evening meal. As far as lunch boxes went, I always thought that what they ate was doing them more good than stuff they didn't eat. So, typically they had a sandwich (white bread - brown would have been binned), perhaps a small Kit-Kat, a piece of fruit, crisps, or worse ... Monster Munch etc.

I think I'd be considered a bad mother now!

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 18:22:03

Teachers talk to kids, very often - and know a lot about the life of kids at home, including what they eat, often.

Looking at all the evidence and medical and educational research re poor diet and current and future health, and the educational impact of such- I cannot see how you can't see that poor diet is no less a form of abuse- with much more of an impact in many ways than being exposed to second hand smoke, and so many things which are accepted as forms of 'abuse'.

Why should the 'State' protect kids from second hand smoke, for instance - and at the same time saying that exposing to poor diet on a long term basis is 'none of their business'. One could say that excessive physical punishment such as smacking, may well have much less repercussion on a child's health, educational achievement and future chances.

So is it that we think it is our duty to protect children from some form of abuse, and not this one - with possibly much deeper future impact??? Tell me, what is the difference Bags?

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:25:30

Sounds fine to me, and I bet they were healthy on it. Just as I was healthy even though I ate cornflakes with sugar and milk (full cream, natch; drank the stuff too when I got home from school) for breakfast for most of my childhood wink.

We had puddings with dinner (pie and custard type puddings) and my mum always provided something sweet at tea time too – a slice of cake or something like that.

Between meals we were allowed, in our teens, to help ourselves to bread (sliced white) and jam or peanut butter.

We all thrived and were disgustingly healthy, though I'm sure such a system would be frowned on now. Just shows what a load of bullshit all this food bossiness is.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:27:22

And teachers always believe everything kids tell them hmm.

I loved the comments teachers used to write on DD3's writing jotters after another of her tall tales of home life smile

noodles Sat 13-Jul-13 18:34:24

Yes, children do talk to teachers, but teachers interpret what they're being told and that leads to confusion. Anecdotal evidence is not good enough.

The 'State' is accused of interfering with teaching methods whenever they try to bring about change, but seemingly this same 'State' should be charged with protecting children from unproven 'abuse'.

As an aside, my son, then aged 9, told his teacher that I could not shop at a newly opened Superstore because I was a kleptomaniac. He was partly right, I couldn't use the store because I'm really claustrophobic, and this particular outlet no windows. On my only visit there, I shamed myself by panicking and rushing out....

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 18:34:48

Your childhood food sounds very much like mine - and nothing wrong with that. Teachers often do food diaries with kids, at primary school or as part of food studies, and kids are amazingly honest.

Sorry to say, but it seems you have no idea just how poor some kids diets are, and the implications on so many levels, including educationally as well as health. Again, either we as a society decide that it is our business to protect kids from things that seriously affect their health, education and future prospects, or we do not. So, hands off - but why on this aspect, and not others???

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:35:47

Have you seen this thread, jura? www.gransnet.com/forums/health/a1199394-What-if-were-wrong-about-Type-2-Diabetes

granjura Sat 13-Jul-13 18:39:45

Overfed and Undernourished: the Plight of UK Children Today

In the face of the UK's unfolding child nutrition disaster, Jennifer Swift argues the case for serious regulation of our children's food and how it is advertised, including a ban on industrial trans fats. Published in the Church Times, 23 June 2006.
"This will be the first generation where children die before their parents as a consequence of childhood obesity", warned the House of Commons Health Select Committee in 2004 [quoted in "Sick to Our Stomachs" by Sarah Bosley, Guardian, 29 September 2004]. This stark message about the dire consequences of poor nutrition in childhood has since been followed by a torrent of further developments, ranging from the popular television series Jamie's School Dinners to recent declines in the sales of junk food such as crisps. Yet British children are continuing to pile on the weight. Over a third of them are already overweight or frankly obese, and if the trend continues, by 2020 more than one half will be overweight or obese.

And this excess weight is not the only nutritional problem that British children suffer from. Unpublicised official figures from the latest National Diet and Nutrition Survey [jointly funded by the Food Standards Agency and the Department of Health] show that huge numbers of our children are not getting even minimal levels of the essential vitamins and minerals they need.

Oxford University's Alex Richardson (who is a senior research fellow at Mansfield College) reveals some of these deficiencies in her new book, They Are What You Feed Them: between one-half and two-thirds of children in every age group are getting less than adequate vitamin A in their diets, 75% of boys and 87% of girls are deficient in vitamin B2, and the list goes on and on.

Dr Richardson points out that while the results of the adult survey are freely available on the Internet [www.food.gov.uk/science/101717/ndnsdocuments], the data for children can only be found between the covers of a £65 book [The National Diet & Nutrition Survey: young people aged 4 to 18 years, Ruston et al, HMSO 2000; can be ordered at www.statistics.gov.uk/ssd/surveys/national_diet_nutrition_survey_children.asp] asks, "perhaps the Government would rather we didn't know?" [They Are What You Feed Them, by Alex Richardson, Harper Thorsons 2006, p. 8].

The reasons why so many children today are either overweight or missing vital nutrients or both are not hard to find. A child who prefers computer games on the sofa to kicking a ball around the park is clearly more likely to get fat, but lack of exercise cannot explain those missing vitamins and minerals. Children today are eating more and more food that is high in refined sugars and starches and synthetic fats and additives and deficient in everything else. To take just one example, the Food Commission reports that the sugar in a single bottle of Ribena exceeds a child's recommended maximum sugar intake for an entire day [www.foodcom.org.uk].

In response to this crisis in our children's diets, a coalition of 161 health, parents', and consumer groups have banded together behind the Children's Food Bill, which proposes measures to improve children's current and future health and to prevent food-related illnesses. The Government has largely accepted half of the proposals, such as setting nutritional standards for school meals and banning the sale of fizzy drinks and sweets in school vending machines.

However, there is one key provision of the Bill which the Government is dead set against - banning the broadcast of TV adverts for unhealthy food before the 9pm watershed. Indeed, when on 22 May Ofcom issued a consultation document about food advertising aimed at children, they refused even to include the pre-watershed ban as one of the four options for further action, describing it as "disproportionate".

The advertising of junk food to children is a lucrative business - it is estimated that banning it before 9pm would lose commercial broadcasters up to £240 million of income per year ["Ofcom faces legal action over food advertising" by Julia Day, Guardian 23 May 2006]. There is much rhetoric about the importance of children's nutrition, but the outcome of this dispute will reveal whether our society's proclaimed commitment to helping children to make healthy food choices is real or not. The Children's Food Bill coalition is encouraging people who are genuinely concerned to contact their Member of Parliament about the Bill.

Meanwhile the Government, as if trying to distract public attention from their failure to tackle the vested interests that benefit from our children's ill-health, is trailing ill-considered quick fixes, such as the recent suggestion by the Education Secretary, Alan Johnson, that all UK schoolchildren might receive free fish oil capsules ["Brain Food" by Maria Woolf and Jeremy Laurance, Independent on Sunday 11 Sunday 2005]. There is no doubt that most British children (and adults too) consume far too little of the essential fatty acid omega-3, the vital nutrient supplied by fish oil, which is necessary for a healthy heart, brain and immune system.

Nor is there any doubt that several scientific studies have shown that a form of omega-3 can help children with hyperactivity and dyslexia. But there is no firm evidence yet that these supplements would improve the behaviour and performance of normal schoolchildren. Dr Richardson is the scientist behind the Oxford-Durham trial, one of the few properly-controlled experiments showing that omega-3 can benefit children with specific behavioural problems, and so she is scarcely one to undervalue it, but she thinks Alan Johnson's new-found enthusiasm for omega-3 needs to be properly channelled.

"Scientists in Oxford have drawn up a proposal for a proper scientific trial of omega-3 in mainstream schoolchildren," she said. "Our charity, Food and Behaviour Research, is trying to raise the funds needed which are a tiny fraction of of the cost of giving omega-3 supplements indiscrimately to all school children. It seems more than silly to consider spending billions of pounds of taxpayers' money on supplements when we don't even know what this will achieve. What's more, it's always better to get nutrients from food if possible" [Telephone interview, 12 June 2006].

However, there is one simple step the Government could take which would certainly benefit the health of the nation's children (and adults as well) - ban the use of transfats (partially hydrogenated fats) in food. Made from vegetable oils heated to high temperatures so that they become semi-solid, transfats are found in biscuits, sweets, cakes, ready meals and fast food. The twisted shapes of transfat molecules throw a spanner into many processes in the human body, and they are believed to be ten times more likely than saturated fat to cause heart disease. Denmark has banned transfats and the United States has begun to require the mandatory labelling of products containing them, but here in the UK the Government is leaving it to the supermarkets to remove transfats from their products.

Banning transfats would cost the taxpayer nothing, nor would it evoke cries of 'nanny state', because transfats have been chosen by food manufacturers, not consumers; furthermore, because transfats actively block omega-3 in the brain, getting rid of them might even improve the behaviour and school performance of our children.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 18:57:09

Do you seriously think the govt will ban trans fats? I bet there are a few government snouts in food industry troughs that will prevent that. Yes, I am that cynical.

Here,s something interesting I found via Twitter today: www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/business/american-palate-grows-more-adventurous.html?src=recg&pagewanted=all&_r=0. Seems to be saying the food industry follows consumer demand rather than the other way round. I haven't read it carefully yet.

Bags Sat 13-Jul-13 19:00:50

Meanwhile DH is cooking me a home-made burger (no grains within a mile of it) stuffed with home-made guacamole, and he's just said he'll plonk a fried egg on top of it. He will use beef fat or lard or possibly coconut oil to fry the egg. Healthy food. Yummy too smile

j08 Sat 13-Jul-13 19:16:12

Not healthy. Coconut oil bad! You don't need red meat and egg!

You could regret this missis!