From nanny state to naggy state

It seems that they may have been seen by hikers

The combination of SAS and TA didn't sit well for me. However keen I can't imagine that most part time soldiers would be as fit and resilient as professionals - and even they get into trouble sometimes.

My DH made himself quite ill yesterday, insisting on trying to finish decorating the downstairs Loo regardless of the temperature. But then he always knows best!

It does seem sad that their desire to be accepted and not to appear wimps might have lead to their deaths. Collapsing from heat exhaustion carries with it the inevitable conclusion that there was insufficient water consumed. I also understand that part of the exercise was for them to be going it alone, which did not allow for colleagues spotting the warnng signs and alerting the person. Steps should have been taken to increase the safeguards after even a cursory glance at the weather forecast.

From what I understand from the BBC news, although not confirmed by the MoD, the soldiers were aspiring SAS members.

If it was a selection exercise and they were being judged, and in competition with each other, it's understandable that determined young men would not want to give up or appear defeated.

I can't think of another explanation for such high numbers.

Just been reading about the soldier deaths. Not looking good. However, I do think the army knows about keeping soldiers hydrated on exercises. There must have been a breakdown in the system, for which somebody could be responsible.

I noriced it was an exercise to choose people for SAS training. I'm wondering if they are supposed to be at a stage where they deal with things like heat exhaustion without supervision at this stage.

It is still shocking.

I agree, Mishap, it was a terrible thing to happen (and not for the first time) - but we don't know whether they had been deprived of water, or not given enough, which was what you implied in your original post.

Daft rules should be broken, or at least bent when hot weather or things happen that the makers of the daft rules didn't think of – contingency plans. I doubt if it would really be a problem. Even presidents and prime ministers take their jackets off in warm weather.

Ana - all the reports say that 6 soldiers collapsed, two died and one is in hospital. This on the hottest day of the year round here. Only likely explanation is heat exhaustion and dehydration - one falling by the wayside might be something else, but six is a bit too many. It is thoroughly irresponsible. The army medics should have cautioned against the exercise, or altered it to take account of conditions. It is one thing to die of heatstroke in a combat zone, but quite another on a training exercise. Pointless waste of young lives.

Of course people who work in schools are members of the public, Bags. Presumably is it the governors or the head who have decided this daft policy.

Natural selection at work!

I feel sorry for the kids though

But we do get reminders (all the bloody time!) and people still behave stupidly! How can anyone not know that hot sun burns skin and that babies are particularly at risk?

As a teacher in that school I would have encouraged the children to break the rules re blazers and I would have allowed them to have a bottle of water on their desks. Decent schools already allow this, realising that well hydrated kids work better and don't feel so tired.

People who work in schools are members of the public.

A family member teaches at an Academy, where throughout this hot spell, the children have been obliged to wear their blazers, with shirts done up to the neck complete with tie. To add insult to injury, they are not allowed to have water in the classroom. Stupidity is not just confined to members of the public.

My DD1 has just written a press release for a hospital trust who have had to treat and admit a large number of sun burned children..youngest 4 weeks. 80% of bay's body burned by the sun! Don't say we do not need reminders!!

Yes, I thought that was what you were referring to, Mishap. The trouble is, we don't know enough details to be sure that they actually died because of a lack of water - at least, none of the reports I've read have been able to confirm or deny that.

My comment about the army referred to the sad deaths of two young soldiers who were on a yomping exercise in the Brecon Beacons the day before yesterday and who died of dehydration. It beggars belief that the army functions in hot places like Iraq and yet cannot work out that people need fluid on hot days.

It makes me very angry when this happens - it is not the first time.

We are not all the same. Many older people will have different changes in their lives. I have noticed some people who are losing their hearing but they are not aware of it.

Not all elderly people lead such an active lifestyle. I'd imagine it's quite easy not to notice thirst if you're housebound or can't get around much. The article just refers to recruiting 'healthy' senior citizens to take part in the study.

Good post Ana .

Sounds as if it might be a good habit to keep, greatnan!

I can't say I have lost my sense of thirst - I drink about ten cups of tea a day, plus orange juice or water when I am on a walk. Perhaps it is just that I like the taste of tea, or it is a habit.

Yes I read that Bags, but to me the French family ties seem to be much stronger than in the UK, which is not to say that there aren't older people who have no family, especially in cities. Here in the village it is part of my role as a local Councillor to check on people.
I think in the aftermath everyone blamed everyone else. I also think the paragraph about how the most frail who were in nursing and care homes survived better than the next group up was interesting.

Ana, just seen your post. I didn't know that!

Just read the Wiki article about heat exhaustion and the complications of the 2003 heatwave. Here is a telling paragraph:

Not everyone blamed the government. "The French family structure is more dislocated than elsewhere in Europe, and prevailing social attitudes hold that once older people are closed behind their apartment doors or in nursing homes, they are someone else's problem," said Stéphane Mantion, an official with the French Red Cross. "These thousands of elderly victims didn't die from a heat wave as such, but from the isolation and insufficient assistance they lived with day in and out, and which almost any crisis situation could render fatal."[7]

Not simple thirst then, but not knowing how to keep body temperature normal in tropical heat. Very sad.