We are angry about India but

Yes, as I have accepted. No need to labour the point.

I get your point thatbags such generalisations are unnecessary and, as you so politely point out, can easily be avoided by those who would like to do so. There are plenty of people who have studied at those universities who do not come from privileged backgrounds and people at other universities who have.

I won't say a word!

And Mr Bags.

Mind you, the post-grad university is rather different from the undergrad scene. But I epect that's true elsewhere as well.

Oxford can't be all bad. They accepted me as a post-grad!

I accept that, jess. But I still don't like the term. I guess I'm just sick of it because using that term doesn't solve anything of the old school tie problem.

bags you cannot deny that they "old school tie" and Oxbridge have enabled a certain class of men to retain a lot of the power in this country. (Cameron-Osborne-Johnson etc) I think it is clear that was the sense in which it was used, not as an insult to everyone who ever went to Oxford or Cambridge.

Just as 'Paki' does.

I am not offended. I'm registering an objection to a word's negative usage. I'd just rather that term were not used in such a loaded way. I'm as aware as anyone what the loading is about and the disconnect between some very privileged people and ordinary folk.

So my request is simply, if you be so good as not to use the "Oxbridge" in a negatively loaded way I would take it kindly. I think it is as bad as racism. It taints every Oxbridge person by association.

I am sorry I have offended your sensibilities, Bags - I was just remembering the statistics for the difference in the percentages at both universities for students from the private and state sectors.
I don't think it can be compared to the use of racist language, and it is a bit unfair to say that it can.

That is true. But I am an Oxbridge person without having been to a public school. So was my first husband, and the second, and a good number of my friends. All of them nice people whom you would be happy to spend time with. That's why I'd rather you didn't use the term in the way you did use it.

I don't think that all public-school pupils are arrogant bastards - just that there is a possibility that their lives have been far removed from the lives of those they are called upon to judge.

Yes, greatnan, I was aware of how you were using the term Oxbridge. And I was saying that really I'd rather you didn't use it like that. To my mind using like that, loaded with negative connotations is as bad as using a term like 'Paki' in a similarly negatively loaded way. That is all.

You mean, I think, arrogant bastards. Why not just use that instead?

My feeling is that is it the home background of the arrogant bastards that is at the root of the problem. A school or a university will not make a person an arrogant bastard if their home background works against that.

Bags - I am sure you are well aware that I was using Oxbridge as a shorthand way of describing a certain type of education. We know they are excellent universities. Unfortunately, they still take a very large percentage of their students from a number of fee-paying schools who may not be quite as familiar with the lives of the people they eventually come to judge as people from less privileged backgrounds.

I wish people would stop using 'Oxbridge' as an insult. Both Oxford and Cambridge are good universities and turn out vast numbers of well-educated, well-balanced people as well as a few arrogant bastards, as do other educational institutions everywhere.

( www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039yz4x link for The Reunion episode...only it isn't available yet!)

Thanks for the link, When. I suspect that many men don't consider forcing sex on their wife is rape. We were all incensed by the story of the eight year old girl raped on her wedding night, but it can be very painful, humiliating and traumatic at any age. As the report says, teenage boys (and younger) need educating.

I am listening to The Reunion on Radio 4, about the start of Spare Rib. When Harold Wilson introduced the Sex Discrimination Act, Margaret Thatcher said the House should be concentrating on more important things, like inflation.

Report on the UN study that delivered these statistics.

america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/10/1-in-10-men-in-asiapacificcommitsrapesaysunstudy.html

If we are honest, most of us only think about India when something bad hits the headlines.

Two wrongs don't make a right though. Both houses need sorting out. Here, we try. Hopefully India will start to try a bit harder now.

petra there was some discussion about those statistics on the radio on Friday and their validity was doubted.

Of course, the constitution of the judiciary - still mainly white, middle-aged or over, male and Oxbridge - may well have some bearing on the sentences handed out - and on some of the disgusting comments made by some judges. Fortunately, there are now more women and people from different backgrounds entering law.

More severe sentences might send out a message to would-be rapists, but as so few are ever convicted many victims will still believe it is not worth putting themselves through the humiliation of cross examination about their own lifestyle.
I can remember when any mention of sexual offences in the House of Commons would be greeted by hoots and guffaws on one side. Some progress has been made but boys need to be educated to respect women, however they are dressed or however drunk they may be.

I don't agree. I think people who care about this issue do not forget or overlook and many of them are involved in trying to help reduce the number of cases even further. For instance, there is a push to try and get more severe sentences against rapists.

So if it's 1 in 4 men who are rapists in India, how many of those 100s, 1,000s of men protesting are/ were rapists.