Chivalry and sexism

It all depends on the context and the attitude of both parties, the same gesture could be good manners or a patronizing put down and all stops in between.

I think in the early years of the feminist movement there were a lot of women going over the top about things like being offered a seat because they were women. Feeling very offended by being called "love" or "duck" or "pet" etc when these terms were just terms of friendliness in shops etc which is just second nature in some parts of the country. This is like people latching onto a band wagon of political correctness without applying common sense.

tee hee -

Of course not Iam64, this area is full of prats!

OK Lona, I do know that really, i have good friends in that area. Some folks are just rude, where ever they live, no offence taken I hope.

It does say a lot about someone's lack of empathy when they sit while a pregnant woman or someone who obviously needs a seat stands. They would also most probably be difficult and selfish to the people in their families and every day lives.

Anyone with a child who gets on a bus in Beijing is usually offered a seat immediately. If it doesn't happen then the conductor tells someone, in no uncertain manner, to move. Best not to travel in rush hours though !!

Iam64 I would have got off at Wilmslow too, so please don't think we're all like that here
Some of us are quite nice

I walk with one or two canes, in the past crutches, here in Brussels it is very multi-cultural and I have noticed that it is the African and North African men of all ages who immediately stand up.
Around the EU area with all the suits i am never offered a seat and once stood on crutches for 40 minutes on a bus to a posh satellite town with the bus full of men and women clutching laptops in posh suits. there were a few bruised ankles and toes by the time I got off, but still no one offered me a seat.

I know that the mantra today is "Pregnancy is not a disease" but I still feel it does no harm to offer. My daughter sailed through her first pregnancy but was so crippled during the second one she couldn't have stood for five minutes, let alone thirty. It just seems common courtesy to me to offer a seat to anyone who looks as if they might need one, regardless of age, sex or anything else.

Vegus - 'he got of at Wilsmlow' - says it all maybe. One of those selfish individuals with a sense of entitlement. Makes me think of karma, and what goes around coming around (I hope)

It's down to good manners as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't hesitate to offer to help someone who needs it, regardless of age or sex.

I find that young women are more likely to offer to help me with my suitcase than young men.

I like having doors opened, bags carried, seats offered etc but then on the other hand I do it for other people too.

How I wish I'd thought of that Bluebell!

No cup of coffee to accidentally spill over him when train lurched?

I was gobsmacked when on Virgin London to Manchester there had been a reservation cock up and some seats were double booked. A young man in his 30s refused to give up his seat to enable a woman with a babe in arms to sit down. He flatly announced it was his seat and he was not getting up. 3 or 4 of us took it in turns to stand up so that the woman could sit down. I was so flabbergasted by his unkindness and rudeness that I was almost speechless - but did have my say when he got off at Wilmslow!

The use of the word chivalry – a medieval concept – is surely deliberate and intended as a way of refuting feminism and a get-out for consideration of one's fellow beings. These days, it simply means courteous behaviour and applies equally to the actions of women and men. It no longer has anything to do with a formal system of a moral, social and religious code. It's a just an excuse to be selfish.

Yes, it's about good manners and politeness, and liking other people. I'd always give my seat to someone who needed it more. Rosesarered makes a good point, there have always been people who are only concerned about themselves. I do wonder how much impact on the way people communicate with each other in public spaces, the advent of parks with no parkie, buses with no conductor, tills with no shop assistant etc are having.

JessM - I think that's the problem with the word chivalry, it can be an excuse for misogyny. It's also part of the contribution to ensuring feminism is often seen in a negative manner.

The time when good manners and sexism collide is surely when "chivalry" is used as a reason to exclude women from things they want to do and have the ability to do e.g. work as a firefighter.

That's the one, Bluebell. Especially nice and especially bored - that train takes forever!

When I was in my early twenties I worked in London and travelled home to Devon once a month. I took the Circle Line to the station and usually carted a large suitcase with me. One day a bowler hatted gentleman grabbed the suitcase and carried it all the way to Piccadilly from Bank. He disappeared before I really had chance to thank him but I was so grateful.

Hard to imagine this happening these days. Even I would have assumed he was stealing my case! Mind you he'd have had the shock, it was full of dirty washing.

I don't see it as an issue of feminism but as an issue of kindness and courtesy. If I saw anyone who I felt needed a seat more than I did, I would offer it (though these days it usually happens the other way round!). I never turn down a seat if it's offered and am always very appreciative.

Generally speaking (not in the Jo Swinson case), I am a little more cautious re pregnant women unless they're wearing a "Baby on Board" badge or are heavily pregnant. It would be very embarrassing and upsetting for both parties if a seat was offered when a woman wasn't actually pregnant (this happened to one of my friends once).

What annoys me is people who sit in the aisle-side seat and who won't budge over or get up to let you get in, leaving you to squeeze past them.

Anno - I use the Reading - Manchester train - do you? Maybe it's populated by especially nice people

On the trains to and from Reading last weekend, very kind people lifted my case onto and off the rack. I couldn't have done it myself, but never needed to ask.