Chivalry and sexism

Comma after minister instead of MP.

or preferably no comma

I thought it very impolite of other MPs not to offer to let Jo Swinson sit down. Nothing to do with being a woman but all to do with thinking of someone else's comfort. Obviously, she is a woman as she's pregnant but you get my drift. Presumably, someone in the chamber with a broken leg or something similar would have been offered a seat by someone regardless of gender. PC poppycock!

I think it is very nice to see chivalry in action and of course be on the receiving end. I do think it has somehow lost it's way, sadly.

Now, is that because of 'feminism'. If women demand to be treated equally, then that is what they will get. Can the male species be forgiven as to not knowing whether to have a s--- or a haircut, so to speak.

I think they can, but in defence all we hear about is equality in the boardroom, treat us the same as men, I don't want to be singled out because I am a woman, blah, blah, blah These common 'demands' are not wrong, but they must have a consequence.

As for Jo Swinson there is a total mitigating excuse for the debacle at PMQ's. Yes she was standing but she herself did not find this an issue. She was standing 'behind' the mass of MP'S, both standing and sitting and in her words she chose to do so as she was not going to be in the House long. At PMQ's all heads are facing the 'chair' meaning they all had the back of their heads turned towards her position at the back!. I think this is the press and media being an ass.

Naturally chivalry does not apply only to men. There were also female MP's sat down. Do many women give up their seats to the elderly or pregnant women?

I remember once a lad offering his seat to a woman on a bus and she said "How old do you think I bloody am". Poor lad froze to the spot in embarrassment. I was furious and said to him "Thank God we are not all like that love, don't let her put you off, your mum would be proud of you".

Long live chivalry I say.

I have felt ashamed sometimes to be "of a certain age" when youngsters offer their seats and they are rebuffed by people POGS the school my DGD attends insists that they give up their seats if older people get on a crowded bus when she is on her way home and they all move down the bus so to speak,the only thing I find strange and it could just be me is the amount of young mums who bring on big pushchairs (and I mean big) that cannot be folded down they take up 3/4 seats which are at the front of the bus and would be used by elderly people as their first choice, do these girls not have the use of their legs any more and walk their babies the couple of stops they are going,totally different if they are going a long way but in my experience they are only going a short distance.

I use trains a lot when travelling for work and am constantly delighted by the range of people of all ages and both sexes who help with my luggage and help me on and off the trains. Like others, I hate it when an offer of help is refused or a seat turned down. It's nothing to do with feminism - it's just about good manners which is predicated upon concern for the well being and comfort of others. When I was younger and fitter, I would help someone with a pushchair off a train or offer an older or disabled person a seat. I would always offer a pregnant woman a seat. Again like others I am shocked at parents who don't make their children stand for adults.

Yes, I feel the same. Anyone who looks to be more in need of a seat warrants it being offered to them. Nothing to do with feminism. My children aways had to shift onto my lap as buses filled up. Thank goodness I was driving them around by the time the twins arrived!

I feel the same too. Good manners are in short supply..... but not just 'nowadays'. 36 years ago I got on a train which was going to Plymouth.I boarded the train just one stop away for a 15 minute journey, but I was 6 months or more pregnant, so needed to sit down. The train was full, I stood next to a group of people sitting down, there was a man in his 40's with a son about 12 years old. Nobody stood up for me but looked and then looked away!I asked the boy, 'may I sit down please?' and he stood up but his father said ''no, why should he we have paid for these seats.' He was well spoken and smartly dressed.I said [probably angrily ]'because I am pregnant and can't stand' and he just glared at me. The boy said' have my seat,' so I did.So, I'm not sure about standards having dropped, I think there have always been kind polite polite people and rude ones throughout history.I still offer to help women with young children and their pushchairs, although very few did for me in the past.I'm sick of people not holding doors but letting it slam back into you as well!And of others[when I hold a door] rushing through in a mob, I'm not holding a shop door for 6 people.

I was amazed today that a young girl of about 8 years of age helped me to park my shopping trolley and her mother suggested that she retrieve the £1 for me as she did not think that I could manage very well. I thanked both of them so that was 3 happy people! Politeness and courtesy in my book go a long way.

On the trains to and from Reading last weekend, very kind people lifted my case onto and off the rack. I couldn't have done it myself, but never needed to ask.

Anno - I use the Reading - Manchester train - do you? Maybe it's populated by especially nice people

I don't see it as an issue of feminism but as an issue of kindness and courtesy. If I saw anyone who I felt needed a seat more than I did, I would offer it (though these days it usually happens the other way round!). I never turn down a seat if it's offered and am always very appreciative.

Generally speaking (not in the Jo Swinson case), I am a little more cautious re pregnant women unless they're wearing a "Baby on Board" badge or are heavily pregnant. It would be very embarrassing and upsetting for both parties if a seat was offered when a woman wasn't actually pregnant (this happened to one of my friends once).

What annoys me is people who sit in the aisle-side seat and who won't budge over or get up to let you get in, leaving you to squeeze past them.

When I was in my early twenties I worked in London and travelled home to Devon once a month. I took the Circle Line to the station and usually carted a large suitcase with me. One day a bowler hatted gentleman grabbed the suitcase and carried it all the way to Piccadilly from Bank. He disappeared before I really had chance to thank him but I was so grateful.

Hard to imagine this happening these days. Even I would have assumed he was stealing my case! Mind you he'd have had the shock, it was full of dirty washing.

That's the one, Bluebell. Especially nice and especially bored - that train takes forever!

The time when good manners and sexism collide is surely when "chivalry" is used as a reason to exclude women from things they want to do and have the ability to do e.g. work as a firefighter.

Yes, it's about good manners and politeness, and liking other people. I'd always give my seat to someone who needed it more. Rosesarered makes a good point, there have always been people who are only concerned about themselves. I do wonder how much impact on the way people communicate with each other in public spaces, the advent of parks with no parkie, buses with no conductor, tills with no shop assistant etc are having.

JessM - I think that's the problem with the word chivalry, it can be an excuse for misogyny. It's also part of the contribution to ensuring feminism is often seen in a negative manner.

The use of the word chivalry – a medieval concept – is surely deliberate and intended as a way of refuting feminism and a get-out for consideration of one's fellow beings. These days, it simply means courteous behaviour and applies equally to the actions of women and men. It no longer has anything to do with a formal system of a moral, social and religious code. It's a just an excuse to be selfish.

I was gobsmacked when on Virgin London to Manchester there had been a reservation cock up and some seats were double booked. A young man in his 30s refused to give up his seat to enable a woman with a babe in arms to sit down. He flatly announced it was his seat and he was not getting up. 3 or 4 of us took it in turns to stand up so that the woman could sit down. I was so flabbergasted by his unkindness and rudeness that I was almost speechless - but did have my say when he got off at Wilmslow!

No cup of coffee to accidentally spill over him when train lurched?

How I wish I'd thought of that Bluebell!

I like having doors opened, bags carried, seats offered etc but then on the other hand I do it for other people too.

I find that young women are more likely to offer to help me with my suitcase than young men.

It's down to good manners as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't hesitate to offer to help someone who needs it, regardless of age or sex.

Vegus - 'he got of at Wilsmlow' - says it all maybe. One of those selfish individuals with a sense of entitlement. Makes me think of karma, and what goes around coming around (I hope)