Scottish independence

Now Jess. I really must protest at your latest post. The Scottish National Party has always sought Independence by open, honest and democratic means via the Ballot Box and are now on the verge of achieving their goal without a single drop of blood being shed.

I cannot understand why Nationalism that stops at the English Channel = Good, whereas Nationalism which stops at the Tweed = bad.

Granny23 was it not Alex Salmond's original intention that Scotland would adopt the Euro? Obviously that's had to change and now he talks of a 'Sterling Zone'.

Originally Sterling wasn't on the cards, so did all financial plans change to accommodate this new 'Zone' proposal?

Granny23 - I wish they'd interview you the radio and tv as your input lacks the polarised, over emotional input we often get.
I will be sorry if Scotland votes for independence, we are a very small island. Throughout my adult life, I've felt positively about a united europe so current discussions about England leaving the EU and Scotland becoming independent are just a bit disappointing.
I do understand the desire so many Scots have to self govern, get rid of trident, provide free child care, university education, stop the privatisation of the NHS etc. Alex Salmon and co do however, seem to want independence lite, so they could keep the Queen and the pound for starters.

Increasingly, I would like to draw a line across England, so we could have a northern parliament. I don't know if Wales would like to join our new independent state, but so far, my feeling is it would incorporate Lancashire, Cumbria, Yorkshire, Northumberia, Durham and Newcastle for sure. Negotiations could take place about the midlands and indeed any other area that would prefer independence from Westminster and London.
Anyone want to stand for our new parliament - Granny 23 and various other gransnet posters would be great

Iam there's nothing wrong with Scotland keeping the Queen and Sterling - they're as much Scotland's as they are of the rest of the UK.

Not sure what exactly you are protesting about granny23 - I assume you mean "disagree" as I have not attacked the SNP (although Sansom does attack all nationalist movements - have you read what he wrote? The press article is as ever not the same as the original - maybe that is what you are protesting about? I think Sansom looked hard at Nazi Germany and concluded that nationalism could lead countries down some dangerous paths. The more people get in these national silos the more then tend to demonise the "others". )
I am just saying that nationalism as an idea - or ideology (and some would argue a fairly new idea, historically speaking) does not seem to have a great deal to recommend it if you look around the world. What is it for? Look at the trouble its caused . I mean why nationalism ?
is it just a reaction to the imperialist past of countries like Britain and Russia?
I'm not advocating nationalism that stops at the channel. We are all members of the EU these days and I am in favour of that.

Scottish GN's a question if I may.

Are you absolutely confident you know for sure the answer to the question, 'Would and Independent Scotland be a member of the EU automatically'. I do realise there could a UK referendum and the UK could opt out but that is not the same as Alex Salmond announcing a definite 'Yes' but there seems to be no consensus on the matter at all as far as I can see? Actually, and it obviously only my point of view which doesn't amount to much I agree, I think it looks more of a challenge than Alex Salmond is letting on.

If Scotland does say 'Yes' to Independence would you be happy voting 'Yes' without an air tight answer to resolve the issue. Is it important as a question to you anyway? Would having to apply to be part of the EU and 'having' to adopt the Euro etc. be a worry anyway?

Thanks

Riverwalk Times change and plans and policies need to be updated to take into account changed circumstances. A few years ago informed opinion favoured Scotland adopting the Euro, now it is seen as a weak currency and a Sterling Zone seems the best option for the benefit of ALL parts of the UK. With Independence Scotland will be free to choose either of these options or to set up a new currency of its own.

Don't know how it works in England & Wales but certainly in Scotland if any patient is treated outwith their own Health Board area, the cost of the treatment is met by their home Health Board.

There is also a small hospital at Castlebay on Barra which serves as accident and emergency, nursing home, and recuperation unit and hosts clinics (including weekly dental services) staffed by consultants from the mainland who come over for the day. Cheaper to bring one consultant to the island rather than send several patients to Inverness or Glasgow. There is also a GP practice in Castlebay with in-house dispensary.

iam I am afraid I would be ineligible to stand for election to your Northern Assembly, not being resident in that region but would fully support the idea.

Jess I take exception to the campaign for Scottish Independence being lumped in with the NAZIs in Germany, Basque Seperatists, etc. I and my fellow nationalists intend to harm to anyone else just the opportunity to shape our future to best suit our own needs.

" .......... a Sterling Zone seems the best option for the benefit of ALL parts of the UK. With Independence Scotland will be free to choose either of these options or to set up a new currency of its own. "

Granny23 a Sterling Zone is not an option that Scotland will be free to choose - it doesn't exist - it will only be an option if Westminster plays ball, and the people of the rest of the UK might want to have a say on that.

You're making a lot of assumptions, including automatic entry into the EU.

Questions I would like answering are, as the MOD being a major employer in The Uists, who also supply helicopters as needed for medical emergencies. also the MOD subsidises the main airport so as to keep the early warning facilities at St, Kilda which as far as I know protects the whole of the UK were to close because of independence, what would happen to the economy in The Hebrides? More often than not the islands are never mentioned

Riverwalk Scotland's currency is the £sterling - same as England, Wales and NI. Even if Independent Scots will have as much right to use this currency as the other parts of the UK. Unless you are suggesting that England is the 'Winner who takes all' just because it is bigger. The blueprint for a Sterling Zone is a suggestion of how such a zone could be created and work for all parts of the British Isles except Erie. Have you considered that it is the surety of the assets under the North Sea, (worth billions each year for at least another 40 years) that keeps sterling afloat. If those assets remain within a Sterling Zone Sterling survives, if instead they underwrite a Scottish Currency it would be very strong whereas Sterling might well collapse.

The Treaty of Union was a voluntary (ie not by conquest) agreement between two equal nations. If Scotland votes YES, it will not be 'leaving the UK' but rather dissolving the political Union. The United Kingdom will then no longer exist. Logic (and international legal experts) are mainly agreed that in that situation either both of the new states would have to apply for Membership of the EU or both would remain within, with perhaps new terms and conditions agreed by negotiation.

Newist Scotland would have an MOD and a budget and forces commensurate with its needs. There are no plans to close any existing facilities [with the exception of Faslane]. Scotland would be part of NATO and thereby share information and resources with all the other member states.

Interestingly, the SG has just, last month, set up a cross-party committee (or maybe it is a commission ), with representatives from all of the Island Communities to look at the way the islands of Scotland should best be governed and funded in the future.

I think you have lost all credibility now jessm!

NAZI Germany, Basque Terrorists.??

As has been explained to you, we simply want the opportunity to shape our own government to suit us re the reasons given for being governed by Westminster.

Should read. As opposed to the reasons given for not wanting to be governed by Westminster

Thanks for the support Agus - was beginning to feel a bit under siege here

Granny23 you're very informed, and persuasive - I think Alex Salmond should have you on his front bench!

Granny23 . I'm all for reasoned debate but took exception to that particular inference. Completely out of context.

Granny23 don't feel under siege. I am finding your information invaluable when explaining the situation to my sassanach friends and family.

Granny23 you are doing a great job. I wish I could be so articulate. We are surely intelligent enough to listen to all the arguments (including the "be afraid, be very afraid" campaign of the NO vote people) and make our own minds up. As to the idea of Nationalism being equated with Nazism! As someone else has said why is English nationalism OK but Scottish nationalism is not?

I too am finding this very interesting, and very informative. But to be fair to Jess I didn't think she was equating nationalism with Naziism, just pointing out where nationalism can lead (and has led in the past). And wisewoman, I don't think English nationalism is at all acceptable is it? It's usually linked to the BNP or EDL.

Interested in replies to post at 14.35 if possible. Just interested.

Perhaps you are right nightowl. perhaps I am being a bit defensive but I have grown up with the BBC and other commentators conflating English with British, eg the Queen is regularly referred to by people who should know better as "the Queen of England". Another example is at the time of the death of Princess Diana, there was an outcry in the English press that the Queen should leave Scotland and come home to be with HER people. These are small examples but throughout my life there has been a steady drip drip drip of such comments. English people are (and should be) proud of their heritage but equally the Scots are proud of theirs. Surely we have the right to determine how we would like to be governed.

I can understand your feelings on that score wisewoman. I have a sneaky feeling that if you pinned her down the queen would choose to be Scottish rather than English . The English might have to fight Alex Salmond if we want to hang on to her

Pogs Sorry, I didn't see your post earlier. I remain convinced that Scotland would remain in the EU after Independence. This is not because I believe everything that AS tells me. I have reached this conclusion because I cannot think of a reason why the EU would want to eject one of the richest countries in the EU, with good stocks of oil, gas and fish - all valuable commodities. A country whose population consistently votes in favour of remaining in the EU in opinion polls, a country that is unlikely to need bailed out in the foreseeable future. As for the statement from the Spanish PM, who is currently facing allegations of fraud and is desperate to thwart the Catalan nationalists, we can surely take his opinions with a large pinch of sea-salt. He is already facing outrage from the Spanish fishermen whose livelihoods are dependent on the access to Scottish fishing grounds granted to them under EU regulations.

Having said that - No, it would not be a dealbreaker for me (as a pro-European) if it should be the case that Indie Scotland would have to re-apply. If we vote No and remain in the UK we have no guarantees that we will be in or out in five years time anyway.

One final point before I must go and do something else.

The independence campaign is not the sole preserve of Alex Salmond. The official spokesperson on Independence for the Scottish Government is, in fact, Nicola Sturgeon (who I, personally, hope will become the first First Minister of the Independent Scottish Parliament.) Various parties and strands of opinion form the YES campaign. The SNP, the Greens and the SSP are all affiliated along with groupings such as Labour for Independence, Football fans for independence, Wings over Scotland, the Constitutional Convention, Christians for Independence, Women for Independence, as well as many non aligned individuals, a few Tories and Liberals and independent politicians such as Margo McDonald, MSP and the Yes campaign's chair Dennis Canavan. The YES campaign is headed by non-party Blair Jenkins, an eloquent and inspirational spokesperson.

The campaign has been on-going with various peaks and troughs since the early years of the last Century. I have been an activist for over 50 years now and an SNP member, campaigning and helping to make policy for much longer than Alex Salmond. I can still remember, vividly, Nicola's electrifying first speech to conference when she was a shy 16 year old. I turned to my fellow branch delegate and said 'Mark my words - that wee lassie will one day lead this party'........

On a light hearted note, There is a Salmon and a Sturgeon wanting Independence, or Freedom?