Our politicians stink! Agree or disagree?

Ps - good to know we have some views in common. I calculate that over the period of my parliamentary voting life, of say 50 years, I've voted about 10 times, and because I don't change my political opinions much, I reckon my vote has only been for the candidate of my choice once, just once, in all that time. That prompts me to think was my vote really worth the bother, which is a sad conclusion on the democratic process, and I'm sure that until the UK breaks away from the rigidity of the two-party system things won't be any different. PS : I don't regard the poor old Liberals as being anything more than an ointment being used at the moment for the relief of a temporary Tory embarrassment, and soon to be discarded.

First past the Post system is one of the reasons I felt totally excluded from the political process in the UK- as I lived in a Constituency where there was absolutely no point in voting- as I knew it would just go straight in the bin (I still voted, every time, on principle)- here my vote does count- even if I am in a minority.

papaoscar it is refreshing to find a soul with a similar viewpoint to mine. I have often considered myself isolated in political views but always put it down to having lived in many parts of the world, under various regimes and always taking an interest is what makes that system work or otherwise. Sadly opinion is often hijacked by quotes of an isolated good or bad element of the ruling system. As much as I respect everyones opinion, all are entitled to it, we sometimes lose sight of the fact that there is a better way but sadly not one which is in operation or in fact represened by any faction. There is nothing that says we have to have the bad with the good but our party political system dictates that we do. Onr thing I am convinced of however is that under a first past the post system every individual, community and nation gets the politicians it deserves.

Excuse me for a moment, friends, while I reset my compass. The whiff of politics seems to have dipped below the thread horizon for the moment!

absent, that Brooke poem has always made me shudder. It seemed that he, and perhaps his generation, thought of war as a purification. He was dead before he could see action. I wonder what kind of poetry he would have written if he had survived as long as Owen and Sassoon.

Have refreshed my memory. (Google) Died of blood poisoning on the boat. So sad.

Oh right. Prefer his Grantchester one tbh. Isn't he buried somewhere out there. "corner of a foreign field that is forever England"? Or is that one of the others?

Crossed posts, absent - thought you might have gone for your breakfast!

jingle

Now, God be thanked Who has matched us with His Hour
And caught our youth, and wakened us from sleeping,
With hand made sure, clear eye, and sharpened power,
To turn, as swimmers into cleanness leaping.

Rupert Brooke, who never got to see the cleanness of the Somme or Ypres.

www.warpoetry.co.uk/brooke3.html

(Had to google it myself, though...)

WTF does ""swimmers into cleanness leaping" mean?

I can understand the dying as cattle thing.

As far as Mr Gove's take on the World War I patriotism is concerned, it's more "swimmers into cleanness leaping" than "What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?". 'Twas ever thus. When R. C. Sherriff's "Journey's End" was first staged, the politicians harrumphed and wanted it banned because it suggested that the mere boys/junior officers who had spent three years on the Western Front leading their men into certain death could only cope with the horror by drinking large quantities of whisky. Of course, the politicians in Westminster knew best then as they do now; Sherriff was a captain at Vimy, Loos and Passchendaele and, clearly, knew nothing.

I seem to be a Tory mailing list. Yesterday I had a missive from Mr Cameron and I took the opportunity to inform him about toilet closures and the problems of mobile workers finding a loo in the course of their work - many are actually refused toilet access at the places they visit because there is no statutory requirement [although there are regulations for on site employees]. This is something that affects 100% of the population - we all need a loo several times a day. Today I received an email from Mr Osbourne and guess what? He's going to get a reply too . I'm not expecting replies but a drip feed doesn't do any harm.......

I'm sure the system we have is not as bad as most and lots of politicians are doing as good a job as possible. As Ariadne says some seem to be just plain ignorant. This being a case in point, mentioning no minister by name.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-ancient-woodlands?bucket&source=facebook-share-button&time=1389008415

I know that people's problems are pressing in the here and now, but in the long term the environment matters hugely. We can't just wreck everything as a knee jerk solution.

You are, of course, right, granjura; I was being unnecessarily cynical when I tarred all politicians with the same brush. But there are enough self serving or just plain ignorant ones to make my hackles rise. Oh for MPs who have actually been out in the real world!

I believe that most MPs want to enter parliament because they want "things to be better" according to their value system. I am wary though of the career politicians who have their sights set on high office and have had no experience of actually running something or doing a professional job before they get elected. In them I think ambition is an additional, powerful driver.

BTW, you might be glad to know that here, in Switzerland, I am forever saying 'but in the UK we do it like this, or like that... as there are many things the UK does better than most (sadly though, often so well that it becomes the victim of its own success, like the NHS and social services, because they are the best and most generous in the world).

Yep, the last episode of Blackadder Goes Forth had me in tears, they certainly played it for respect.
The same was true of the Wipers Times tv program that was on recently.
That level of slaughter needs humour to make it marginally more bearable. So I agree, knee jerk policies from politicians need to be shot down in flames, whether on immigration, second bedroom tax or whatever. That's good democracy I think.

Certainly the antics in the House of Commons, from all sides btw, are famous throughout the world and give the worst impression of what the UK is all about, sadly and shamefully (btw I lived in several location in England for 39 years- and a big part of my heart will always be there- as well as so many friends, daughters and grand-children).

Granjura - I think you make a vital point - Swiss consensus politics sound far more satisfactory than the constant seesaw confrontations of British politics, which often end up in bad-tempered point-scoring pantomime performances by all parties. Oh, yes I do! Oh, no I don't! Etc., etc. Couple that with the need for British politicians to limit their actions to the 'quick-fix' necessary to satisfy the five-year electoral period and you can see why the British political system is in trouble and the public are apathetic. Long live Switzerland!

I tend to agree with papaoscar judging by the current performance by all sides. I also remember the play referred to by Mishap and hope that many of them start off with the best of intentions, as did the heroine, but get sucked into the general way of doing things that seems to prevail. It would take a very strong and self-confident character to stand up to the "old hands" I imagine.
I think PMS Questions is a disgrace and Cameron should remember his pledge of no more punch and judy politics. Not that he's the only offender, but it was his promise.
As a further rant, why bother having any of them on Today or World at One etc if they never give an answer to a question unless it fits in with their prepared statement?
I know it's easy to sit here and moan, but these people are having a major influence on all our lives. It should not be too much to ask for some straight answers and grown up behaviour.

Apparently someone on irish radio alleged that a politician was "furthering his own nest"

I think the premise all are bent and on the take, out for their own glory is totally unfair. There are bad apples in any walks of life. In all my years in the UK I've known local politicians who were totally and absolutely devoted to their area and electorate- and work tirelessly- so many on a volunteer basis or for expenses (and most do not fiddle them). It is the same here in Switzerland, where I was elected last year as a Councillor (unpaid of course). Meetings after meetings, lots of hard work on several committees (education, immigaration and social for me). It takes a lot of time, and a lot of effort- if if it was not for people prepared to get stuck in, work hard to find solutions and implement them and stick their necks out, not much would get done or improved upon.

Much easier of course to sit at home and moan- than actually try to do something positive, of course. I am very glad I live in a country where one can only work by cross-party concensus, unlike in the UK where see-saw politics are to often the norm.

Yes I know he's adopted Jess, I was thinking about the influences of his adoptive family. I suspect a lot of our generation have been influenced by growing up somewhat in the shadow of two great wars. My family view was that the first war wasn't a just war, in the way that they felt WW2 had been. My grandfathers were very different politically, but were united in their view that huge social and class related changes followed the first war, with moves towards less inequality.

I agree with your analysis of what Gove is up to, by ensuring he is never out of the headlines.

Gove is adopted so probably doesn't know what his grandfather did in the great war. Mine was gassed - i think he was in the medical corps, bearing stretchers etc.
Gove is choosing a version of history to grab a headline and help position him for a leadership bid whenever the knives come out for Cameron. It is in contradiction to the PM amongst others. He is also imposing his preferred take on history onto the national curriculum.