Could the Bedroom Tax be about to go pear-shaped?

What friends? I don't have my friends

Sooorrry! Recent evening spent with 'rich' friends!. We did feel slightly smug that we can sit comfortably in 22 degrees while their houses never go above 18.

I can't afford friends.. I spend all my time looking after the GC My only friends are on GN....

Aka, it was IDS who said that ghettoisation was rife on Benefits Street and showed his policies were working.

for Aka

I thought that was IBS....a Specsavers moment Jen.

Thanks Nfk I'm just feeling sorry for myself today. B****y weather, rotten cold, Januaryitis!!

Might be that as well, Aka. That could be why so many get benefits.
Sounds like you need a few G&Ts to go with your flowers, and violins in the background.

I know the feeling, Aka. Earlier this afternoon I made myself go out for a brisk bike ride to try to shake it off, but it's hard at this time of year. I was working first thing this morning and will be working again in an hours time, and I find it really hard to settle to doing anything pleasurable between times, knowing that I've not finished for the day! I end up on here being argumentative instead!!!

Sounds like a plan Jen I think I've a nice malt left over from our Haggis Bash

Just realised that my hands are cold, and turned my heating up to 22 degrees - because I can afford to as I have no rent to pay.

We seem to be turning the maximum space the state will subsidise you to occupy if for any reason you cannot afford to house your self adequately from your own income into a moral issue where it is immoral for anyone to occupy more than this stipulated minimum housing requirement.

The state's responsibility is to ensure that everybody in need gets a roof over their head, clothing and food, but after that everyone should be free to choose to live in whatever size house, eat whatever food and buy whatever clothes they can afford.

Our housing problems are not caused by older people under-occupying property, it is caused by governments failing to build sufficient houses for a rising population and smaller households. They have failed to grasp the nettle of NIMBYism and we have for too long had governments that were ideologically opposed to state housing.

Remember if all we oldies vacated our big houses to buy smaller 2 bedroomed properties, we would be in direct competition with first time buyers trying to buy exactly the same type of property. Increased competition would rive up the price of starter houses and then we would be blamed for pricing first time buyers out of the market for started homes!

Did you see - I think on the One Show - that all over 65s should heat their homes to at least 21 degrees to prevent blood pressure rising?

And that those with cold hands and feet are more likely to have heart attacks, which is strange because that's one of the side effects of the tablets that they give to many of us.

We always get blamed, Flickety, so we might as well do something to get blamed for.
If we go for bungalows and they go for houses, that will not be a problem.
Actually three bedroom starter homes are cheaper than bungalows, so that's okay.

Most of the new estates being built around here are a mix of 2, 3 and 4 bed homes. It's a while since I worked for a housing association, but I do remember all the houses they built were 2 bed at least. It wasn't practical to build one beds as few wanted to live in them - tended to be inhabited by 'undesirables'. They're too short term. Young singles usually aspire to be part of a couple and a one bed HA house just isn't big enough for two - especially if they want babies. Older singles frequently are broken relationships and want room for visiting offspring - or to become a couple. And most older singles just don't want to live next door to youngsters coming and going at all hours. Perhaps IDS should try living in one for six months.

Three bedroom starter homes! Shock, horror - surely that is blatantly encouraging under occupying? Unless of course the couple starting out already has four young children.

My blood pressure would rise if I had to live in a house heated to 21 degrees. I prefer extra clothes to extra heating, anyway, how much does blood pressure rise? 1%, 10%, 50%. Whenever the media report these findings they always leave the important information out.

I visit any elderly relative in a care home, I sit there and swelter, DH, when he comes with me, usually has to go outside for most of the visit because he finds the heat inside so overwhelming he feels ill.

Frequently - especially when two single parents come together!

Sorry - that last was to Caz.

I have low blood pressure and am permanently cold.

That's ok then, Nfk - what a good example they are setting us all.

'The state's responsibility is to ensure that everybody in need gets a roof over their head, clothing and food, but after that everyone should be free to choose to live in whatever size house, eat whatever food and buy whatever clothes they can afford.' is the reality. Life is not fair, and do we really want to live in a Marxist state? Some people have larger cars, holidays, or better holidays, some travel first class, etc, etc. The UK is million miles ahead with providing social benefits and social housing, and the amazing NHS. Most countries do not provide either- sadly. Or provide only high-rise social housing, as in France.

I'm afraid that to expect social housing to be the same as private housing, PLUS be cheap, have everything provided, decorating, new boiler, new roof, new bathroom, etc, etc - is just pie in the sky. Unfair? Well yes, where where do you put the bar???? Again the UK is light years ahead with social provision- but surely there is a limit. And families with children must have priority for larger houses. But totally agree that more smaller houses have to be built urgently, and with the proper infrastructure in place.

If there is one 'equality' measure I'd like to see implemented in the UK (I was a teacher in several State schools) - it would not be about housing, but about education. I'd do away with all private schools, and ensure all children have access to a decent education and educational support. Now THAT would make a huge difference.

Could I just point out that we are talking about people's homes, not just their houses. There are still small local communities where neighbours help each other. Older people, particularly, may be settled somewhere where the local shop keepers will notice if they don't come in for their milk and bread, where they know and trust their doctor, where they meet friends or attend local groups, where they know the bus routes (if there are still bus routes) and so on. Single parents may be happy with a child's school, have neighbours who babysit or a good local childminder, where they can walk to a part-time,not terribly well-paid job that fits in with school hours and so on. Upping sticks even to a few miles away can change lives in so many ways.

People are much more than economic factors.