divert foreign aid to flood-hit British families

Wellingtons sorry, as in Duke of

Yes Ninny
This is something that concerns me. On the one hand we are told that we are a rich nation and on the other we are one of the worlds most indebted. It doesn't seem long since we were apparently teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Are we sleepwalking to our demise wearing the Emperors new clothes?
Much of our wealth generating industry has gone to many of the countries to whom we still support with Government overseas aid.
Surely our interactions in these instances should be through trade rather than donation.
As I mentioned earlier, disasters are a different issue and all possible help should be given. You have to look to the inspirational Filipinos who, despite disaster after disaster rise from the ashes mainly by their own effort. Yet there are others who, despite pouring millions of pounds of donations in over many years, there is little or no progress to self determination.

The UK is not and never has been the one of the world's most indebted countries not has it been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Those sorts of comments were simply hyperbole to justify slashing budgets for welfare, health etc. If you look at the figures, they tell a very different story.

Joelsnan Lots of foreign aid is already through trade – it's not a new idea.

Thanks for your interesting observations Absent
However, public debt as expressed as a percentage of Gross a Domestic Product GDP was declared at 90.3 in 2012, this, when measured against 184 countries who published the same data placed UK at position 16 of the highest levels of public debt/GDP.
Interesting to say the least.
The Centre for policy Studies stated that the actual figure was probably 103.5% GDP.
Happily the figure for 2013 is 76%, however borrowing is still rising.
The UK economy is in a fragile recovery phase, if borrowing continues at theis rate inflation will follow.
It appears that recent tax increases are purely servicing interest payments on this debt along with Quantative easing.

Much of the borrowing is destined for welfare payments and this is why the government is raising the retirement age to keep as many people in work as long as possible to minimise pension payments.

With regard to aid through trade, I recognise this as fact. What concerns me though is the Injudicious donations when we are borrowing to service our own countries welfare needs and based on the above information most have a lower debt/GDP than us. No we probably won't go bankrupt, we have been very imaginative with our finances for many years.

If that is the case, why did Eric Pickles state "this is a very wealthy country?"

When this government knows it will have to promise to spend a lot of money (because most people are very sympathetic to people who have been affected by flooding and expect the government to help) we are suddenly very wealthy and "money is no object".

It is possibly a case of keeping the populous calm.
The figures above are freely available on the internet and from reliable sources. Understanding them puts the government cuts in welfare and the raising of pension age into perspective.

Joelsnan good posts, I am glad someone agrees with me.

As you like reading facts from the CPS, that well known independent thinktank that is to the right of Thatcher, Joelsnan, perhaps you ought to balance it with information from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

Must be a relief
I for one find it hard to believe in a "silent majority" of GNetters who are "afraid" to support this petition because they afraid of a "backlash" ( unfortunate choice of word in the context of flooding, rescue boats etc!!)
I think the consensus is quite unequivocal.

Hi Durhamjen happy Sunday!
My post were based on a cross section of data available for all to view including the governments own. I have no political bias.

What about 'the vocal minority'?

I'm all for vocal,petallus just found it hard to swallow the notion of GNetters "afraid" to voice their views

I had my head bitten off once many months ago, never again. I now stay in the wings.

Hi charleygirl
You have as much right to state your opinion as anyone else on this forum. Do not allow others impoliteness put you off. Your opinions are as valid as anyone else's. If others don't like what you say...so be it. But don't stop saying. The world will descend into a sadder place if everyone is put off expressing themselves through bullying

Like ninny had to return to ask a question, albeit different from hers:

In what way can a few people disagreeing with one be termed a "backlash". It debases a debate into a personalised spat. And the same applies to suggesting that some GNetters are afraid to post. OH no, they are not, unless they have been subject to the sort of personal vituperation that arises from time to time when reasoned argument goes out of the window.

(Joelsnan I may not completely agree with you, but - your erudite approach seems familiar; did you post on GN some time ago?)

I have noticed only one instance of discourtesy on this thread – and it hasn't put me off posting.

Hi Ariadne
No, I am relatively new to this site

When we have a thread such as this one, when a number of prominent posters are all in agreement with each other, and obviously have no doubts as to the rightness of their opinions, then I think it might be difficult for someone holding a different view to express themselves.

This is especially so when the topic, like this one, has a moral element to it.

No, go for it. Who says who holds the moral high ground. This is what debate is for. If one two or more affirm their views in what appears to be an over assertive manner, all the more reason to continue with the debate. We can rarely all agree and nor should we.

You know what, Joelsnan, I couldn't agree more! Sometimes real debating is hard - this is a topic that has arisen many times on here when issues have become contentious. Personal acrimony achieves little, and unfortunately some sniping and unpleasantness can happen.

I think we can safely say that there isn't as much of that sort of behaviour on here these days, and everyone should feel free to voice their opinion. No one can ever be absolutely right.

I don't think I am afraid of GNers but I sure am afraid of my daughter who discovered via Facebook that we are not in agreement on this subject. Oh boy did I get a lecture! She's clever too, didn't understand half of what she said!

Does your DD lecture you too? I'm not the only one then.

Yes margaretm and I have to say I get very fed up with it

My daughter too. It must be the way we brought them up. My sisters and I were only discussing how we always knew who was mother, even when our mum was in her latter years��