Why are British elderly dying before their time.

Following on from Pennstemmon's philosophy.........

I recently picked a new G.P. doctor. After two visits and exhaustive Lab tests, he said I was doing 'fairly well' for my age. (I've just reached 67). A little concerned about that comment, I couldn't resist asking him, 'Do you think I'll live to be 85?'

He asked, 'Do you smoke tobacco, or drink beer, wine or hard liquor?
'Oh not much these days and don't smoke' I replied. 'I'm not doing drugs, either!'

Then he asked, 'Do you eat rib-eye steaks, fatty roasts and barbecued Ribs?
'I said, 'Not much.... my former doctor said that all red meat is very unhealthy!'

'Do you spend a lot of time in the sun, like playing golf, boating, sailing, surfing, hiking, or bicycling?'
'No, I don't,' I said.

He asked, 'Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have a lots of sex?' 'No,' I said...

He looked at me and said,.. 'Then, why the F - - - do you want to live to
85?

Most of 'our gang' of friends have decided we would prefer to live the life we enjoy and lose a few years than live worrying about dying!
My parents died 'young' (61/66) they had contracted a virus when living overseas that damaged heart muscles ..not helped by heavy smoking in their 20s/30s as was the norm at that time. it is hard as we all know people who are as thin as rakes who keel over , those who exercise regularly and die young and those who over indulge in all sorts and live long!

I just try to do most things in moderation!

JessM it isn't saturated fat that is bad for us. This is old science. Transfats are the fats that are bad for us. We get fat bodies from sugar and carbs, not from natural fat. This might seem to go against common sense, but common sense isn't always all it's cracked up to be. Just google 'does fat make you fat' and you'll find loads of scientific studies.

And as I mentioned before, any health benefits from coconut all are a bonus: I like it because it makes the food taste better.

Many of us eat more than we need just because it's easily available. In bygone times survival was easiest for those who could survive on less due to famine, war, voyaging long distances. This is especially true of the Pacific people, the Maoris, etc.

Some are therefore genetically programmed not to need as many calories. Sadly for them now that food is relatively plentiful and available they, more than others, succumb to obesity.

You only need to eat what you need not what you simply want to eat.

If only it was easy though!!!

Have to go, having asked questions. Back later.

I think the health benefits of coconut oil are unadulterated marketing hype joan. Can you find any decent scientific evidence that coconut oil is better for you than any other fat or oil? The health of people on Pacific islands not that great is it - galloping obesity rather than weight loss.
I don't blame the producers and retailers for trying. It is pure saturated fat without the vitamin advantages of butter. "Assists with weight loss" - give me a break.

Thankyou Joan re coconut advice, DD1 is very into this, they were selling the water at a health convention she went to in Melbourne.

It took me ages to type last comments so may have crossed with some.

Going back to the comment by Chunky mentioned way back, this area (Ebbw Vale) was regenerated by the Garden Festival Wales in about 1992, the brainchild of Michael Heseltine, along with Cllr Brian Scully.
I remember going there with DD2 and a friend with her DC. It was wonderful. When it closed a retail shopping outlet was built on the site called, I think, Festival Park Branded Outlet, which I visited years ago. There is also other development on the site including a large Day Centre and a Heritage Trail.

It is a depressed area, since the steelworks shut there is a lack of jobs, but if people in S. Wales are asked would they want the pits reopened so that their grandchildren could work down the pits I would think the answer would be NO. However, the area suffers from anything really meaningful in the way of industry, although there are vacancies to be filled. The answer is not a simple one, eg DD2 worked in one of these depressed areas, travelling some way from where we live - there were vacancies then 10 gears ago which presumably could not be filled locally because of lack of people with the necessary skills.
(Although she has a degree it was not a degree level job)

SIL's father was a miner and died fairly young of a related disease.
DD2's headmaster came from Welsh mining stock and when we visited Big Pit he told me of how all in the family would work hard to send the brightest child/sibling to teacher training college so that one child at least was saved from a life working down the coalmines. He said he could never have worked in the mines and his brother trained as an electrician, so were both 'saved' by poor but enlightened parents.

So does deprivation mean a shorter life span, or is it lack of education re nutrition or education in general? Or the willingness of doctors to hand out anti-depressants too readily? Or the aimlessness of having nothing to get up for in the morning? And as so many people in the news seem to be taking recreational drugs these days what effect will this have on their lifespan?

Just musing, and if you managed to read to the end of this, well done, you have perseverance and staying power.

Good question Margaret.

It is a case that the subject of malnutrition is not black and white.

It is the case a lot of parents, don't cook, won't cook. A lot of parents are lazy and take to buying ready meals and take always, which we all know cost far more than cooking fresh food. A lot of parents say they don't know which foods are good and which are bad, I personally think that line really is beyond belief.

I think it is a case of returning kids to the 'old fashioned' domestic science lessons, alongside basic financial awareness. I think there is a question to asked if the same should not apply to the parents also who simply cannot budget money nor understand the value of buying good food.

Before anybody throes in the comment they can't afford fresh food I will give an example. A bunch of bananas used as a sandwich filler or as a pudding with custard is a hell of a lot cheaper than a Mac Donalds burger. A vegetable casserole and mash is cheaper than a home delivered pizza. An apple costs the same as a packet of crisps and sweets. It is the case that children will not eat wholesome food if they are either used to sweet, surgery things which I see most children eating these days.

The original post relates to an article which says that because we have cut back on home helps and such like popping in to old people to see if they are alright and calling the doctor or whoever if they are not. This is resulting in people dying earlier than if this care was available to them.

Margaret it is transfats not saturated fats that are bad for you.

I find that coconut oil makes the food taste better. It is supposed to be very healthy:

www.bodyandsoul.com.au/nutrition/nutrition+tips/10+facts+about+coconut+oil,18271

but the health aspect is just a bonus really.

I think coconut products might be more readily available in this part of the world, than in the UK, but I don't know.

I use just olive oil, real butter, or coconut oil for cooking.

As for the OP: I blame early deaths on bad nutrition, smoking, and obesity in that order.

Going back to the op - what exactly is 'before their time'?

Is our time three score years and ten, in which case many are living beyond this age with new medications. Perhaps our expectations of longevity are too high? Or perhaps many people have contracted infections in hospital or died from lack of care in some hospitals.

And is obesity a ticking time bomb not just because of the dangers of obesity itself but because some obese children can also be found to be suffering from malnutrition?

Thank you Joan. Having been buying Tesco own brand organic rapeseed oil, which I presume is authentic. You can never tell these days.
Interesting about coconut oil, which I always thought was bad for you and full of saturated fat. There seems to be a lot of interest in coconut water amongst people I know in Australia, not so much here in the UK I think.
There is often an alternative agenda about which foodstuffs are good for you, as in the promotion of corn syrup in America orchestrated by the USA government

Hi JessM
Yes I think most are expecting longevity to bounce back in a decade or two, but will this be the case when theses seniors will have had to work longer for their pension and for those with little financial resources will have little or no welfare support in their latter years.
The government talks of ring fencing pensions, but by increasing pension age they are clawing back billions from those who have worked all of their lives. With longevity declining the years of pension entitlement will also decline.

Joseph Rowntree research shows that there will be 27% of children living in poverty in 2020, compared with the 5% forecast by the government last year, going on current trends.
They will not get the chances we did.

Yes, quite. See my post of Sat at 8.48. Globally though smoking related deaths still rising.
I do sometimes wonder about the effects of the war years. The folks who are in their early 80s were in junior school when the war started. I know a lot of poor people were better nourished during the war than during the 30s. But serous childhood illnesses were still rife: measles, diphtheria, polio, whooping cough, rheumatic fever etc and many spent years sleeping in anderson shelters etc Suspect most of the smokers in this cohort have been weeded out but there is still a batch that had a really unhealthy start in life. Will longevity bounce upwards once the healthier baby boomers get into their 80s. Everyone is expecting this.

Jess I think the situation is changing.

I know that there are 79,000 deaths annually from lung cancer and 85% of these are linked to smoking. Smokers now make up 20% of the population and the number is falling, slowly.

But 23,000 deaths annually are linked to diabetes alone. And a recent report which called Britain the Fat Capital of Europe linked 1:11 deaths to obesity, this includes heart disease and cancers linked to being over weight.
But the number of overweight and obese is increasing year on year, in some parts of the UK it is 1:3.

Trying to treat type 2 diabetes and its side effects, such as heart disease, kidney failure, amputations, diabetic retinopathy, will cripple the NHS it has been said.

Joan - the lack of nutrition is huge killer of children world wide. As is lack of sanitation. But smoking is a much bigger killer of adults than nutrition either too much or too little. Even in well nourished non smokers it is possible exercise is more important - i believe there is some evidence that it is better to be a well exercised over weight person than an unexercised thin one.
There is a lot of demonisation of rape seed oil in the states - I'm not entirely sure where it came from. Could possibly be the corn oil producers behind the campaign? Growers do after all promote their products as healthy - the Florida orange growers have convinced generations of American moms that they should be feeding their kids pints of orange juice. And the cranberry producers have convinced millions that cranberry juice products (which have a lot of added sugar) are healthy and beneficial for bladder complaints.
But a recent impartial Cochrane review found that :Cranberry juice does not appear to have a significant benefit in preventing UTIs and may be unacceptable to consume in the long term. Cranberry products (such as tablets or capsules) were also ineffective (although had the same effect as taking antibiotics), possibly due to lack of potency of the 'active ingredient'. - See more at: http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001321/cranberries-for-preventing-urinary-tract-infections#sthash.yeYRkFRx.dpuf
So it seems entirely plausible to me that the corn oil farmers could have launched a dirty war.
Anyway back to rape seed oil...

The original form of rape seed oil was high in euric acid and hence its role as an industrial oil. Now there have been varieties bred that are so low in euric acid that they are considered safe for babies. In the UK it is, I am guessing, a much more productive way of farmers producing cooking oil than other crops. Several producers are producing high quality and organic versions that are beginning to compete with cold pressed virgin olive oil.

Here's the reference about Canola and Rape Seed:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed

I use butter, olive oil or coconut oil in cooking. Coconut oil is sold in solid form, and is terrific in frying 'cos your food tastes so much better. I've only just discovered it.

Here we are:
Rapeseed (Brassica napus), also known as rape,[1] oilseed rape,[1] rapa, rappi, rapaseed (and, in the case of one particular group of cultivars, canola), is a bright yellow flowering member of the family Brassicaceae (mustard or cabbage family). The name derives from the Latin for turnip, rāpa or rāpum, and is first recorded in English at the end of the 14th century. Older writers usually distinguished the turnip and rape by the adjectives round and long (-rooted), respectively.[2] Rutabagas, Brassica napobrassica are sometimes considered a variety of Brassica napus. Some botanists also include the closely related Brassica campestris within B. napus.

Canola is short for Canada Oil, and was once, I believe, intended to be machine oil for steam engines.

Do any of you know if canola oil is the same as rapeseed oil?

We have been using organic rapeseed oil for quite a long time now, believing it to be better for cooking at high temperatures than olive oil. I am now concerned having read joan's post.

Re statins - a consultant haematologist I was speaking to some time ago seemed somewhat sceptical about them. Do the benefits outweigh the side effects, and are there other, more natural ways to reduce cholesterol levels?

About nutrition - I agree that poor nutrition is probably the biggest cause of premature death. We were privileged to have had the wartime and post war eating habits: I spent my first 5 years, 1945-1950, eating mainly home grown produce and home killed meat such as rabbit, chicken and pork, plus fish my Dad caught (not necessarily legally). We ate vegetables from the garden, and eggs from our own bantams.

This sort of thing is the food of the rich and/or knowledgeable these days.

When we moved away from the fertile valley, we still had some home grown stuff, and of course rationing of sugar continued till I was 8. Mum always bought fresh food.Oh, and we had nutritionally balanced, school dinners too, however boring they were.

Many people eat food products these days, not real food. Too much transfat, too much sugar, too many carbohydrates, too many added chemicals such as preservatives, too much canola and soy, too many take-aways.

Early deaths (and bad behaviour - but that's another story) will continue until proper nutrition returns, if it ever does.

Chunky's wasn't the only dissenting voice. Another lady said that some people were living and working in the Valleys and trying to improve things, but that the negative image portrayed in articles like this discourages investment.
A vicious circle?