Benefit Cheats?

Well said, Petallus. I wish I'd thought of that.

Durham please do not presume to know what I would like and what I would not! How dare you? You know nothing about me. If you had been on here a long time and taken note you would know exactly what I think of that company. And you clearly do not understand me. There is no proof of how much fraud in any system and if you can't see that I despair. I give up on you, your opinions cleary count for nothing if you can make such assumptions about someone you know nothing about.

I have said nothing about the JRF and their work against poverty so please stop putting words in my mouth.

Also it is not 'tax fraud' to pay lawyers and accountants to legally 'hide money offshore'. That is their job. It is up to our governments to make laws to stop anything that they do not like and up to the professionals to do what they can for their clients. You don't have to like it but it is unfair to accuse them of fraud.

petallus you have made my point we do not know! There is no proof.

It doesn' t really make it different if the amount is larger or smaller, fraud is fraud.
However I do agree the system is stacked against some people.
I do feel desperately sorry for people who are having a struggle financially. The woman who was on the programme about living on benefits the other evening had stolen food because she was desperate and got a fine. What use was that? She couldn't pay and it was passed on to a debt collector and now she owes at least five times as much. Now I believe the debt collectors are morally bankrupt but probably operating within the law.
So are the people who help the very rich to use tax dodges - and those who use them.

So, Nonnie, what did you mean by "I think we all know about the bias of the JRF"?
You cannot complain about me not understanding you if you do not tell me what you mean.
By the way, I've been a member for two years.

I agree rosequartz fraud is truly fraud whether it's tax evasion, benefit cheats or whatever. One is just as bad as the other.

djen only just seen this as I've been out.
Difficult to answer. In ESA a lot of people who have never worked or have never had any intention of working since they had their last child, often 20 years ago. A fair number of immigrants who have never worked in their lives and are quite happy to live off benefits, some of whom have refugee status but go back to visit their old country.
The deliberate frauds tend to be more in DLA. Where it was given on their own say so with no medical input.
It's remarkable how many come limping in, leaning heavily on their escort, but when encountered in the street later have had a miraculous cure.

Phoenix that was the one!

Some are probably not deliberate fraud, but more a feeling of entitlement and not understanding the criteria for th benefit.
A lot are.' Him down the street gets it and there's nothing wrong with him!'

So, just a thought. Let's do a Straw poll with all the people commenting on this thread. How many people do you KNOW who are ' fiddling' a benefit.
I know 2.

Thanks, Galen. So your view is obviously coloured by what you see in your job. How many claims do you pass, and how many do you dismiss?
I could never see how people got away with it. Every year my husband had to fill in the forms and see a doctor to find out if anything had improved. Having to write down every little detail of how falling off a ladder and breaking his back, having titanium plates in his spine, being permanently in pain and having to grade it, and having to write down what happens when you wet or mess your pants and how often is not pleasant. Being reminded all the time of why you are like you are is awful.
That was so he could get DLA and be able to get around in a car, as otherwise he could not get to the end of the street. Nowadays he would not get it as he could get as far as the car!
So you can see where I am coming from.

I do not know any, Petra.
We have to do percentages. How many do you know who get benefits legitimately? I know two of those. That's not counting pensioners, of course. I think our poll would be skewed if we counted those as well.

In ESA, the stats show that apron 40% of those failed by ATOS for the limited capability for work succeed on appeal.
The situation at the moment though is slightly obscured because a lot of those who were found to passport that test are now appealing as they've only just found that benefit ceases after a year unless they are also found to be incapable of work related activities.
As the DWP has not informed us what work related activities are, in spite of directives from above, and if they fail to comply with them they are sanctioned, you can see our problems.
To further complicate things, a lot of cases were 'nodded through' with no medical. Some of these should probably not have been awarded the benefit anyway..
I trust this makes sense to you.
It is all terribly complicated and probably accounts for the fact that the first thing I do on getting home after a tribunal is,

POUR A VERY STIFF DRONK

Drink!

And I haven't had one yet!

I know 3. Two of them 'professional' people!

Benefit cheats, that is.

I know 2, relations by marriage but they are back on the straight and narrow now having little choice.

Yes, it makes sense, Galen. IDS is winging it as usual, and probably hoping he gets voted out next year so he does not have to clear up the mess he has made of the system.
It's a bit like Gove making a mess of the education system, coming up with new ideas all the time and not testing them out, then wondering why teachers are leaving in droves.
I cannot understand why the DWP are still allowed to get away with the sanctions like they do. Even IDS must know it does not work.
I watched a programme a couple of nights ago about sheriffs going round to people's houses and changing the locks because they had defaulted on debts that they did not know how to pay. At least the sheriffs occasionally had a heart. They could not kick out a woman with two kids in bed at 11 p.m. But they had previously given a lift to a woman and her sister so they could go and move in with their mother, seven people in a one bedroomed flat! They could not find emergency accommodation for the woman because her child was with friends at the time as she had been at work, so she did not qualify.

Don't know any. I do know of people who work the system ie don't commit fraud but do know how to get everything they can. My pet peeve is women who plan their careers so that they get pregnant after a promotion, take a lot of sick leave during pregnancy, take maximum maternity leave, come back to work, take more sick leave and so on. I knew one person who made two pregnancies last for nearly four years of paid absence.

Come on, what about the ones who are claiming benefits legitimately?
You can't list one without the other or we will think that nobody claims honestly. My husband did, but he's dead now. Does that mean I can count three honest ones. we actually found out that he could have been claiming more, so does that mean he cancels out one of your cheats?

Please could someone advise me on how to work the system? I currently have £2.06 to last until Wednesday 26th.

Thank you.

Wish I could Phoenix. Trouble is you would probably get caught.

Actually, Phoenix, you must be another one for the honest list.
How many people on here are claiming benefits honestly?
I can't imagine anyone would admit to being a cheat so I will not ask that.

I wonder why whenever there is a discussion about welfare benefit and it's possible misuse, that we always get the 'Ah but..what about tax fraud'
as if welfare fraud is irrelevant because tax fraud is potentially greater. Welfare benefits comprise in part, my hard earned cash. I want to be be assured that my socialist principals ensure that welfare payments go to the deserving.
Chase the tax evaders too.

Lilygran, my opposite number at work did that many years ago, during two pregnancies. She then claimed benefits on medical grounds, hardly able to move apparently. Last time I saw her (many years ago now) she had been up a ladder decorating her husband's new offices.

It made things very difficult covering for her repeated absences before she finally left and claimed benefits.

The other thing that puzzles me is the child benefit allegedly going overseas to support children left behind there. When I was in receipt of (much welcome) child benefit I had to declare that the child (ren) were living with me, otherwise it would have been stopped.

I don't know how they do it Phoenix. Hope you will be OK.

You can ask, Durhamjen. I am claiming my benefit (ie my state pension) honestly, including a pittance extra for graduated pension contributions. (Is graduated pension a benefit too?)

phoenix are you sure you're not entitled to income support?