Benefit Cheats?

What a silly and unfair comment, really, absent. And a great shame- I am sure you know that- sad. Why make this so personal and rude?

Temptation leading to debts to loan sharks has nothing to do with being righteous, etc- but is a tragic disaster for those who fall prey to it. And it is therefore essential to truly address the issues with loan sharks- with more regulation and limitations- and also see how people can be helped to not fall prey to them and suffer the terrible consequences. That was so clear in the 2 programmes last week, that all the families were in such a disastrous situation due to loans and not really due to lack of benefits.

Do you truly believe that if people take loans at 1500%- benefits can ever cover for this? Point scoring on a Forum as this one won't help much, sadly.

I have, btw, lived the whole of my adult life in the UK. This is where I met my OH, had my children and saw them through their education, etc, worked and later re-trained via study and re-built my career, etc- until very recently after retirement- so comments about the nationality of my birth are truly irrelevant (racist even?) thanks.

Back to trying and find ways forwards and stop loan sharks bleeding the most vulnerable people dry.

Nasty

Yes.

People who take out 1,000+% loans usually know they are exorbitant, but believe they have no option. Many such loans are taken out to repay other accumulated debts that will have immediate, catastrophic impact if they are not repaid. Corner shop debts cleared by a loan shark debt, cleared by a payday type loan, when the only pay day is the next depleted benefit payment. People in a high state of anxiety about their world falling round their ears don't make reasoned decisions. Poverty is obscene when it creeps up on people who are living hand to mouth. There's no room for manoeuvre. Just one unexpected bill tips them into uncontrollable debt.

But, sadly, typical these days.

Petallus no! I try to start with an open mind in all cases. But on the occasion when another tribunal member followed the claimant from the bus stop to the tribunal office and then when asked how she'd got their insisted she had had a taxi door to door as she could only walk a few steps! My credulity was very strained!

granjura What on earth did you think I meant? Do you really think that the suggestion that you have a typically – and sometimes quite refreshingly – Swiss approach to life is somehow an insult? What is rude about my saying that you are the epitome of Swiss-ness? Is being Swiss a bad thing? Are you ashamed of Switzerland and Swiss qualities? If so, why?

Of course, on a more serious note, loan sharks are loathsome parasites and both education and legislation are required to suppress their evil practices.

It goes without saying that people should not claim benefits to which they are not entitled.

However, it is possible that someone who is generally disabled enough to find it difficult to work on a regular basis may have good days when they appear to be relatively normal in their abilities.

I can also image a person who is desperate to keep their benefits exaggerating their symptoms in order to convince a sceptical tribunal
of their genuine disability.

The newspapers are full of cases of people losing benefits unfairly.

My concern is that tribunals will start to operate with a cynical expectation that the people they see are likely to be swinging the lead.

I agree with you, Petallus. I have worked with people who have struggled to get in to their job each morning because they wake up in severe pain and can't get going. One had rheumatoid arthritis and got an agreement with senior management and HR that he could start at 10 am on the days he was in worse pain. This meant he would be late for some training courses, couldn't always remain seated so would have to get up and move around, had a restricted diet and so on. He had to explain every time what his illness was, and what agreements he had to accommodate his disability. Personnel changed, so he had to renegotiate the agreement, often with less success when the new personnel didn't know him. He knew what his rights as a disabled employee were, but in the end he was driven out of his job, couldn't pay his mortgage, got into debt. Job Centre appointments at the beginning of the day were unreasonable, but he wanted to work. In the end, he got a part-time, afternoon job - disability advisor with the housing dept. took two years, and he was told several times he could remain on DLA, but claiming was such a hassle. He had been a middle manager, but his illness and others' ignorance about what he could do to compensate, like working later, left him with depression and fear about what the people assessing him had the power to do. If he was assessed in the afternoon, dosed up with painkillers and increasingly more mobile, he would be seen as a lead swinger. In the morning, he would struggle to make early appointments. He got so fed up with having to explain, it was easier to try to manage without claiming anything and living on a part-time wage.

Granjura when 'humour' is used to excuse behaviour that others find offensive and inappropriate, you have just encountered a "Just Joking" justification.

From someone who says she has no sense of humour, but obviously has a good grasp of sarcasm. I think we're all used to it by now.

If anyone else had made those remarks all hell would have broken lose. Taunting is very unpleasant.

When I struggle myself so I do appreciate from a personal point of view what is involved.
But we do get outright liars I'm afraid.
Another man was seen to carry his (collapsed) crutch into the tribunal building walking normally.
BT the time he entered the room, he had extended the crutch and had developed a profound limp.
Another person who could not lift their arm, was asked ' how far could you lift it before?'
He promptly lifted it to normal height above his head and said 'this high!'

Galen I watched in disbelief as a parent manoeuvred her wheel chair into an empty space at a Nativity Play. Disbelieve because I recognised her from my Step Class the night before!

Would someone please explain to me why my comment about the Swiss-ness of granjura is so offensive. How the hell was I taunting merlotgran – taunting about what? Why should all hell break loose. Ana and Aka That wasn't sarcasm for goodness sake. (It would have been a pretty feeble effort and totally lacking any point.) What the hell was I supposed to being sarcastic about? It wasn't meant to be humorous either, just a light-hearted comment in passing.

Is there something terrible about being Swiss that I don't know but granjura, Ana, Aka and merlotgran do? Or is it some piece of arcane slang that means something appalling? What is so terrible and offensive about being described as typically Swiss?

Somebody please explain.

I'm afraid I can't explain Absent. I was reading through the posts, came to yours and took it as being a COMPLIMENT to Granjura for her pragmatism and ability to cut through the anecdotal and sentimental stories, analyse the problem, realise that the tempting easily obtained but impossible to clear loans were the crux of the matter and then turn her attention to finding a solution. Analytical, pragmatic, practical - all valuable qualities which I would attribute to the Swiss. I am sorry if I am accepting a stereotype which Granjura would not agree with. I only know that if someone said I was the epitome of Scottishness, I would be really chuffed as I think being Scottish is great. I would have expected Granjura to feel the same about being Swiss

Thank you Granny 23. Unfortunately, this storm in a teacup seems to have hijacked a serious thread about a serious subject – and for that I am sorry. I am also shaken and distressed to have been so misunderstood and pilloried, so I very appreciate your post. Now, I shall just leave well alone so that we can get back to a proper discussion.

Have an Oscar Absent!

read your post and feel you have been unfairly pilloried. if 'English' had been used as an epitome of a certain type of view of the world - it would have raised a wry smile not an accusation of 'taunting'. have a and
often with the written word it is difficult to portray nuances of meaning.

Poor Absent so misunderstood by some

Having known 2 Swiss people I understood your comments completely.Absent.
They were both very analytical, and funny enough, they both had a sense of humour bypass.
Please don't be upset, it's not you.

I have always thought granjura very Swiss, too, not as an insult but as a description of her approach to problems and to the relationship of personal decisions vs public consensus.

I'm lost here. Could someone please explain 'Swiss-ness' so that I understand?

Thank you very much Ana and phoenix - that will have saved me a very red face lol