Do we expect too much as a right in Great Britain?

GrannyTwice very well put!

This is an interesting thread for anyone who no longer lives in the UK. I think that people in the UK do expect as a right many things which are not available in other European countries. We in Germany pay much more for our health care but far as I know there is no mobility benefit. Or even mobilty expectation if you can't get around. The health insurance probably sees to that.
There are no reductions on buses or in theatres or museums just for being old but there might be exceptions which I don't know much about. A disabled card for the car is only for people with MS or amputees.

That is the question, Hollydaze, has it improved our lives but at the same time made us more dependent on the State? And is that a good or a bad thing? Is it a cynical move by politicians to try to get us to vote for them?
Is self-reliance better for many of us (bearing in mind we should always be prepared to pay our share to help those in need)?

PS There is no automatic right to a state pension in Australia, but on the other hand I do not think that pensioners in Australia have to pay any income tax.

My brother has lived in Australia for over 40 years. He has often said how much he misses living in Britain and would love to come back. He then always says 'but if I did, my living standards would fall too much'.

So state provision isn't seen, by him, as something worth coming back for as his lifestyle is greater in Australia. Has reliance on the state improved our lives?

Did find however some miserable older people just moaning about the young and feeling they have a god-given right to retire in their early 60s

< looks everywhere for young people expecting everything on a plate>
No luck - found lots who worked hard at school and uni, are paying back student loans, working hard now in jobs whilst bringing up children and contributing to the state's coffers

The younger generation (some of them) in my opinion expect everything to be handed to them on a plate. Their parents have mollycoddled them and it must come as a shock to some of them when they have to go out in the real world and earn a living.

We are very lucky in Great Britain with our health service, dental care, free prescriptions (if you are on some benefits you get these free).

I think Britain is seen as a soft touch in relation to benefits, that is why migrants from other countries flock here.

I think the state pension is too low, but that is changing but sadly I and many other women who have recently retired will miss out.

In answer to your questions Roseq I think it depends on the individual, one perhaps the family, and their views in expectations. Some people seem to expect the lot, ironically often the same people who moan about the nanny state.

Others struggle on, trying to find work, pay their bills, feed the family, etc on what they can afford.

I don't need any ongoing medication, yet, but would expect free prescriptions over a certain age and if chronically ill.

I applaud the move to free school meals for young children (don't think KS2 primary pupils are included) as I see it as helping families to stretch their budget, and hope the meals are nutritionally balanced. I'm pleased there is no complicated means testing for the latter. Some children pay for Breakfast Clubs though, it depends on the funding stream.

Schools have traditionally provided writing materials (paper, pencils, pens, slates, chalks) so it would be a retrograde step to change that.

Free eye checks and bus passes are surely cost effective in terms of spotting problems early or getting people out and about.

I'd add free dental checks to that list and help with dental costs perhaps.

We have relatives and friends all over the world, and they are always amazed about the generous UK benefits and welfare system. In so many ways the best in the world, the most generous and innovative- but they do ask often about how it can be afforded and whether it is not abused.
I think if you have always lived in the UK, it must be hard to see that the UK NHS and social welfare is unique in the world- and was the very best until recently- and the reason why it is threatened.

I was asking questions rather than trying to state facts, and hoping other posters, who may be better informed than me, would provide some enlightening views on whether or not our expectations of what the State should provide are too high.

I am always a bit suspicious about the figure for the lowest state pension anywhere. Here in France (as I understand it), you get one pension pot which is state plus occupational. I don't think you get much if you haven't paid in much. You pay huge contributions when working, which cover health, maternity pay, sickness benefit and pension. We had huge problems explaining the UK system to the people who took our contributions here.

I'm very pleased that Britain has a fairly comprehensive welfare system although I think we are misleading ourselves if we think it's the most generous in the world. Our state pension is, I believe, if not the lowest then one of the lowest in Europe. The Scandinavian countries have by far much better child care and other benefits, but then they do pay more tax and there are not such extremes of rich and poor.

Anyway, having watched John Pilger's documentary about the plight of the aborigine population in Australia, I wouldn't like to follow their way of doing things.

South Africans are envious too for the same reasons you give Mice Elf 're health care.

On another note, I quite often have to correct misperceptions on the part of friends and family in various parts off the world, about the level of support that everyone gets here, "for free". There are a lot of myths out there about the welfare state.

The Australian health care system is very fragmented. If you need tests you have to run around town going to different providers. This is where NHS England is headed, and very rapidly too.
Also there is no free dentistry for children and dentists charge and extortionate amount for treatment. Life expectancy for aboriginal populations is 20 years less than other groups.
There is far less money given to schools, parents have to pay for all notebooks etc and PTAs are constantly trying to make money in what seems to be a rather unpleasant way e.g. its mother's day so you must bring money to school to buy a present from our stall. I think head teachers are afraid to upset their PTAs so they get away with some strong arm tactics.

I know nothing about Australia, but close friends from the USA are deeply envious of the NHS and the way we don't have to worry about affording surgery or other treatments. They pay a vast amount in private insurance and my friend who was head of nursing at the University of Virginia tells me that there is a tendency to over treat and huge inequalities.

Obviously our taxes are higher, but that is the fairest way of ensuring the health of the nation.

In the same way the provision of free school meals will assist in keeping children healthy and probably be a money saver in the long term.

Paying taxes and receiving health care and so on according to need isn't dependency. It's a mark of a society which has decided to use its resources wisely for the common good.

That's not to say that there are no inefficiencies in the systems or that, as ever, there will be a small minority who abuse those systems, but as a marker of a civilised nation I think that our system is a pretty good one.

It would be interesting to know about pensions.
The pension age has changed quite drastically here for women. What is it like in Australia?
What are the tax rates that are paid towards pensions?

I think we are going to have to become less dependent on the state in the near future. A lot of people already are.

If you do not want us to discuss politics, you should not post on the politics thread.
I thought I was being very restrained and apolitical, mentioning the Nuffield Trust. It's a private health company, which I completely disagree with normally. The Welsh NHS is mentioned in the OP, but I am not supposed to comment on it?

Rose my posts were not off-piste - I directly addressed your OP, then directly answered durhamjen's question to me.

Rose, if you read the Opendemocracy report it says that waiting times for knee and hip replacements are not necessarily longer. In England we collect the data differently from Wales. Your cancer treatment is better.

I'd like it if that was what it meant, River, but I do not think it does.
Apparently David Davies, Tory MP, calls the idea borderline insane.
They are actually going to anonymise the data.

Rose, do your friends know what the pay gap is in companies in Australia? Is it a more equal society compared to here? And does that include Aborigines? It would be interesting to know.

Off-piste Ana

I just asked the question out of interest having listened to our Australian visitors' views on Britain.

As I am feeling a little off-piste myself I will bid you

This thread is going exactly the way I thought it would...

Maybe it's not a bad idea to have tax returns made public ..... we might get to see what the avoiders/evaders are up to!

River, talking about the amount of taxes we pay, what do you think of this?
www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/18/hmrc-to-sell-taxpayers-data
I expect HMRC not to sell my tax information. The government has obviously forgotten about care.data.
Apparently they have already sold VAT registration data to Experian, etc.