Scotland YES or NO

I don't think Papaoscar meant that ALL yes voters are 'a virulent anti-UK rabble of Scottish fanatics fired up on petty nationalism and false promises' any more than us south of the border who want you to stay are ALL a 'shambolic and discredited gaggle of Westminster political incompetents'. I think he meant just our esteemed political leaders. Papa would never be that rude.

I avoided calling him rude because I didn't think it was that. But he needs to tone down his rhetoric and think about what exactly he's trying to say. It's very obvious that he is against a break up of the UK and he gets quite over emotional about this issue.

Thanks for clarifying things NfkD - yes that's what I think too.

Dear Aka don't you think that people get "over emotional" because they care so much? It is a huge cause for concern and there will be many repercussions to cope with whatever happens in the referendum. This affects everyone in the UK not just Scotland and we care!

Of course I don't think any of our dear GN pals are rabid Scottish fanatics but the fact remains that such types do seem to be dominating the media and I would like to see more of the reasonable, calm, intelligent voices of the Scots I have met over the years take centre stage. It's all got a bit out of hand with the blow-hards taking over it seems to me.

To be frank most of what I have heard has been calm, rational debate. But that wasn't in PO's post was it?

What I think is at the heart of his rant is he feels helpless as he cannot influence the outcome as he doesn't have a vote.

I'm leaving this thread as any adverse comments seem to generate so much bad feeling it's just not worth joining in. the only thing I would say is that it beggars belief that someone would seriously advocate taking a country into full independence on a financial wing and a prayer! I would have thought that the first thing that the politicians involved would have sorted out before even venturing down the path of self determination would be the monetary situation that would be in place post independence. It strikes me as completely mad to 'hope' that the Bank of England will support the currency after independence, or to 'hope' that the EU will welcome a new state with open arms and favourable terms, and also to 'hope' that you can smoothly transfer to the Euro again under favourable terms. Surely all this should have been at least partially cut and dried in the first instance. But having said that, hopefully it will all work out if YES prevails, good luck and bon voyage.

Greetings, one and all! Permit me to dip my quill pen into the pot of reasonableness. In my experience most people, regardless of nationality, race or religion are decent, honest folk only out to do their best for their families and themselves. Those qualities have made the UK the great nation we are, and of that I am very proud. I am not proud of the activities of many of the snake-oil purveyors and spin-merchants who now dominate our society, and I am concerned that the SNP, bursting with anti-Tory/Labour/Westminster bile are leading their people, and the rest of us, towards the abyss. Their plans are based on very shaky assumptions and pipe-dreams and must be challenged. As for the shifty Westminster horde with you today, you are welcome to them, they have much to answer for. However, it will be far better to resolve our problems if we all stick together.

I am glad that I don't have a vote, although the outcome could have repercussions for my nationality. As things stand, I wouldn't know where to put my cross! However, I know that some of my highly educated and completely rational relatives in Scotland are planning to vote YES, and are by no means "'a virulent anti-UK rabble of Scottish fanatics". Others, however, equally well educated and politically aware, are voting NO. If my family is typical, it's all on a knife edge.

PS There is no acrimony in that situation. They are all still talking to one another amicably.

One characteristic of snake-oil purveyors must surely be the overuse of adjectives!

Any " virulent anti-UK rabble" is balanced by an equally "anti-Scotland rabble".

FFS, this is a POLITICAL PROPOSAL which will be decided in just over a week's time by a legal and properly supervised vote by those living in Scotland. That includes very many who were born in England (or elsewhere) as well as those who were born here. I know of at least four posters whose voices are often heard on here to included in that. ("What do they know of England, who only England know?")

Any "virulent anti-UK rabble" who try to storm the polling stations will be dealt with by the Scottish police, who are quite capable of subduing them. The same is true of any "virulent anti-Scottish rabble" who try to muscle in.

Could we now please stop tearing strips off each other and get on with considering how we will all live together after the vote, whether Scotland is still part ofthe UK or a separate country?

My own plan is to treat my family and friends in England exactly as I treat my family and friends in Scotland!

Here is an invitation to any Gransnetters who would like to test out that intention - there will be a meet-up in Edinburgh in October. Watch the "Meet-up" threads for details. If you can make it, do come. You will be greeted with the usual warm welcome - whether we are to be sisters or neighbours.

Make that at least a dozen prominent posters who have mixed Anglo-Scottish interests and absolutely no rabble tendencies at all.

They thought in Westminster that it was just a Brigadoon fantasy and not worth the effort of thinking hard about what it meant about the relationship they had with these far-off Uk citizens. They have woken up at last.

I am not convinced that it is a good idea to divorce Scotland from the rest of the UK - both parties will lose out from the division, certainly for a while and possibly forever, but I can see WHY so many people want to do it, despite being born and bred in the south of England.

Whatever the outcome, the shake-up could be a good thing if it makes those at the centre of power think a bit more about those on the periphery, both geographically and demographically/socially.

I agree with Elegran and anno. It's going to be a leap of faith of they do decide to separate, but then everyone will just get on with their lives and there will be a strong will to make it work. All this talking up into animosity between the countries is counter-productive. Instead, any sign of tension should be defused and criticism saved for the MPs who are trying to manipulate citizens on both sides of the border.

I was musing on my divorce analogy while I ate my peanut butter and marmite sandwich (followed by a peanut butter and honey one)

This is very much like a potential divorce situation. One party has been closing its eyes for years to the dissatisfaction that the other party has long felt at their inhibited situation. When things come to a head, their reaction is to fail completely to understand how the other party could possibly want to leave them.

Had they realised that it was a serious suggestion, an appointment with Relate might have talked out the problems, ironed out the points of difference and found a solution that left everyone content. Instead, they played the injured party and left discontent to simmer until the last minute, when it was all in the hands of the divorce lawyers, and positions had hardened.

Meanwhile, they children of the marriage are hurt to watch the possible separation, and are giving their opinion on what should happen - sometimes making things worse by siding very ferociously with one or the other.

Some of them think that one party has it right, some of them the other, but all of them will have to readjust their relationships whether the divorce goes through or there is a reconciliation. Shared custody will mean that they see both "parents" and tact will be needed by everyone to avoid recriminations.

The problem with divorces though Elegran is things often get very nasty. Especially during the division or property.

Peanut butter and Marmite? Now that's a new one on me and must be tried, but will it knock Nutella and Lemon Curd off the pedestal? So, at last Cameron is fighting for the UK. Its to little and to late but better than nothing, I suppose. Whatever happens, I will expect my government, whoever they are, to fight tooth and nail for the UK in all respects regardless of all outside considerations. I'm really sorry for the good people of Scotland having to make such an important choice on such flimsy and threadbare evidence. Now where's that pot of peanut butter, there are more important things to decide...

Peanut butter .... yummy with anything. I've a wonderful idiot proof recipe (I'm not a great baker) for peanut butter cookies.

Spread the marmite before the peanut butter, Papaoscar, or you will be in difficulties. For the peanut butter and honey, the squeezty jars of honey are est, as you can trickle it over without trying to spread it.

Yes, Gillybob, sharing the assets can sometimes lead to trouble. I imagine everyone has prepared their initial positions, their fall-back positions, their fall-back-again positions and so ad infinitum.

That is, if it comes to having to divide things. It may not.

Comment re T Blair, the late Prime minister.

There is no money in it for him, better to get it from corrupt African states or one of the 'Stans.

What a b***ard

Peanut butter and Marmite - try it on toast as well. Peanut butter first - the oil soaks into the warm toast, then the Marmite.

Not easy to spread the marmite evenly over the melting peanut butter, though. You get some bits with none, and other bits that shrivel your tongue.

I don't recognise myself or any of my friends as "Virulent anti- UK rabble of Scottish fanatics fired up on petty nationalism " behave yourself Papaoscar.

'Blessed are the Piecemakers' as my DM used to say every day as she made my DF's 'piece' to take to his work. I think Elegran should be nominated for sainthood for her exemplary work, both as a Piecemaker and a Peacemaker, on this, and many other threads

Note for those who don't have 'pieces' it means a 'snap' or for the refined a 'packed lunch'. It can also mean a single sandwich, e.g. a jeely piece. There is a strange anomaly whereby, in the vernacular, one does not have a piece with jam but rather a piece on jam, a piece on sausage, a piece on cheese etc.

I used to make bait, for my Ex Oh in South Shields

Is that because when it falls, the bread is always on top of the jam (or sausage or cheese?) Granny23 ?

Less of the sainthood, though. Knocking heads together would be nearer the truth.