Dog Attack In Leominster

Well - I think people on here know my feelings on this subject.

Responsible dog ownership is the understandable litany from the dog lobby - but we cannot force people to be responsible, and the sort of people who keep these dreadful vicious animals are not responsible people. I know - 25 years as a social worker visiting people's homes - I have seen it all. The rule was that the less responsible and decent the person, the larger and more vicious the dog. I have had some narrow escapes. The sound of huge slobbering animals crashing against the front door and barking ferociously has caused me a sinking heart on many an occasion.

I do not know what the answer is. The attempt to eliminate vicious breeds from our country seems to have failed. How do we create a law that allows decent people to keep safe dogs, but gets rid of the rogue element?

The crux of the matter for me is choice - on the part of dog lovers to own a dog; but also for those who come into contact with them to be safe and unpestered. A relative of mine currently has concussion as the result of two dogs bowling her over in a park, so she hit her head on the path. I am sure the owners would say they were responsible by allowing them to play loose in the park, and would say they were "just being friendly" (how often have a I heard that one!?) but the fact remains that a person has been injured through no fault of their own.

I have to admit that a far as i am concerned dogs are wild pack animals and trying to turn them into semi-humans who share out homes is doomed to failure; and goes against nature.

I just off on my daily walk and fully expect that the local dog will try to hump my leg and generally be a b*** nuisance. Sigh.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDjfiKcSE2g
There are a lot of these onutube; they horrify me. Someone sent me one once thinking I'd go 'aah, how cute'. No one can control a dog of that strength but they are not illegal. Only pitbulls [to my knowledge] are.

I'm sorry - I managed about 5 seconds of that clip and had to stop it. For goodness sake. What can they be thinking of?

I did watch it [thought I'd better as I'd posted it!] but I was totally on edge; the baby did, at one point take the chewey from the dog but thankfully the dog just took it back. I just kept thinking 'it would only take one bite'.

Staffies are a worry to me. I live near the said county. There is a lot of controversy over how safe they are. I think a lot of yobby types think they look suitably aggressive and and probably cheaper that big bull baiting dogs.

Their aggressive tendencies would probably depend on how they are bred and raised, but I would not really trust one.
The words "Bull Terrier" says a lot about the breeds tendencies.
I suspect they now being bred for aggression by the afore said yobby types.
It probably helps when they are collecting their drug money.

So now if you are want to buy one from a litter how do you assess their temperament?

Dear God! Some ejit trying to prove their point about now harmless their dog is. The very fact that they have posted it makes me worried about them.

What worries me about about the "he is harmless"/"he is only playing brigade" is that we all as humans have off-days when we snap at people. No dog is to be trusted - they too will have off-days or be in pain or whatever and their reactions cannot be predicted.

Ironically, in spite of my anti-dog position, I get furious when I see all the in-breeding and tail-docking that goes on. It makes me shudder - it is all about control and I find it intrinsically unpleasant and distasteful.

Staffies are legal but can be lethal. Wasn't Princess Anne fined once for not controlling her Staffy?

Mishap - I agree with you 100%. My job also often involved home visits (E.P.) and the number of times I stood paralysed with fear.
As you say, no dog can be completely trusted, and when there's a baby or toddler in the house, it's just crazy to leave them in the same room together.

No it was a bull terrier [think Bodger in The Incredible Journey]. I've known bull terriers and staffies in the past; lovely dogs.'Doreen the Dog' [staffie] was one of the sweetest, happiest dogs I've ever known. The problem is, when they do bite they don't let go and the power in their jaws is immense. I think most people in towns have staffies more for protection than aggression as a result of knife crime but it still doesn't stop the dogs biting people. Almost every dog I see these days is a staffie which is very worrying.

There is no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner. To that you could add "irresponsible if not criminal breeder" the sort who deliberately breeds from dogs with aggtessive traits with the exicit aim of producing an aggressive dog.

"explicit"

Well - I agree that dogs are not inherently bad in themselves. We are just asking them to be something they are not: civilized and domesticated. And, indeed, the owner/breeder will create a dog in their own image. Therein lies the problem.

Some owners are blind to the fact that others do not share their delight in their dog and insist on inflicting them on others. It is not right.

One local dog here is a total pain. He rushes up and frightens my GC, jumps on the pushchair etc.; and grabs whatever they are holding and will not relinquish it - even the owner cannot achieve that. It is truly a pain.

I'm with Mishap's views on dogs.

The memory of having my wrist held in the mouth of a large Alsatian ( hard enough to cause lots of bleeding which ran down my arm) when I was 5 has left me with a life-long mistrust of all dogs.

I can be around dogs for a short time if their owners are friends and I know they have been trained well and that they stay right away from me - but it's not something I am comfortable with.

Muzzling is something I cannot understand. If a dog needs to be muzzled when in a public space, then that says to me this is a dangerous dog.

Although I agree with Mishap, I do think that the right dogs can be domesticated and civilized. We are shocked when we hear about vicious attacks on humans, especially children but we don't hear about the countless family pets who are well trained and much loved. They enrich the lives of their owners.

It is the responsibility of breeders and owners to ensure these horrible animals are not a danger to people. I'm a dog lover but I wouldn't think twice about having an animal put down if it was anything other than a trusted pet. I would even go so far as to say that Animal Behaviourists are a waste of time and money because no one can be sure that an animal won't revert to agression.

Rules need to be tightened. Dogs should NOT be allowed off leads in public places.

Quite often a dog will be snappy due to fear not aggression and any dog is capable of snapping if taken unawares or if it has sensitive ears or other parts. I had a spaniel that I bred myself; no problem with any of the other pups but she was snappy and yappy at the vets and I've got no idea what caused it.

We had our JR put to sleep after he bit my son's friend. The boys were about 15 at the time. I saw it happen and the boy was in no way to blame. We couldn't risk having an unpredictable dog.
Muzzling in public is not always about the dog being vicious, quiet often it is to stop them scavenging through black bags etc or eating other dogs excrement yuck !

We have a female border collie, aged 11 now. She has a very sweet obedient nature, DH calls her my daughter because we communicate so well, but we've never been able to trust her with children.
When our grandchildren come to stay I warn them, and once she snapped at our DGD who was being rather fussy with her, luckily missed.
She's almost human, but not quite.

I am not a dog lover but believe in live and let live. Sometimes when I am out and about I see massive dogs (mastiff types) straining at the leash, their owners hardly being able to control them. Their jaws look terrifying (the dogs not the owners). On two occasions I have had large dogs leap up at me whilst I have been out walking. The first time it was a rottweiler which was on a lead with a teenage girl trying to control it (she couldn't). It leapt up and sunk its teeth into the sleeve of my coat, fortunately just the coat and not my arm. We managed to prise it off with no harm done to me (just the coat) but I was badly shaken up. She apologised profusely. The second time it was a labrador, also on a lead, being walked by an elderly lady. It leapt up with wet muddy paws, it's claws ripped the front of my coat (what is it with me and dogs and coats?) and covered it in mud. The lady didn't even apologise, she just said 'oh, whatever the dog was called, 'you are naughty' and laughed .
My point is by all means have a dog but why do some people have to have such large creatures. Get a miniature poodle or something.

Yes - I am always amazed when dogs are allowed to jump up, ruining my clothes, and the only response is an amused one - I am not laughing!!

I agree Mishap. Nothing against dogs. My brother always has them but fails to give them any training. I sat with a cup of coffee there once and the dog came up, nudged the cup and I had coffee all over my white trousers. He didn't do it on purpose apparently.

Until the dog fighting element got hold of them Staffies were renowned as wonderful family pets who adored people. If you look at some of the pictures of "bait dogs" who have been rescued you can see the lengths these people will go to to make them savage. Unfortunately the whole Dangerous Dogs legislation is deeply flawed. Family pets can be removed on the basis of appearance alone and can be put down because some one decides their measurements are wrong. Meanwhile people who shouldn't be allowed near any animal are parading round with dogs they don't understand and are unable to control.
Walking your own dog can become a nightmare, not helped by the feeble owners who tell you "He's just being friendly"

I wish you hadn't reminded me about Bodger Tegan I wept buckets when they thought he hadn't made it home!

Dog rescue shelters are full of staffies and staffie crosses. I wouldn't chose a staffie as a pet, but have known child minders and foster families whose staffies were bomb proof around children. Most of the "staffies" i came across in the last 10 years as a sw, were not full staffies, but crossed with some type of bull breed, so prospective adopters have no real idea what they're taking on. I grew up with a bull mastiff, a gentle giant of a dog. As others have said, generally one look at the owner will give an indication of the way the dog has been (or often not been) trained.

I sympathise with those who would like all dogs on lead in public spaces. It's already the case that dogs are to be on lead near children's play areas. Dogs need off lead exercise and if they're properly socialised and trained, should cause no problems to other dogs, or people. I believe everyone who buys/rescues a dog should have to attend at least basic obedience and responsible dog ownership training. The kennel club good citizenship courses are excellent. If owners can't afford the average of £6 a lesson for the 6 week initial course, they can't afford a dog. Dogs should all be chipped, and some form of registration brought in.
I am pleased to say that a local "professional dog walker" is no longer bringing his unruly packs of 5 assorted dogs to our local park. The community policeman knows all the regular dog walkers, and we all complained to him and the dog warden about the fact this chap had no control over the dogs. He didn't know them, they didn't know each other, so he'd pitch 3 or 4 times a day, with different groups of between 3 - 5 dogs, open his van doors, and let them run. He never picked up after them. Well done that community bobby and dog warden for doing whatever they did.

As others say, most of the fault is with the owners. Sometimes though, it's a mixture of the breed and the owner, and how the dog is treated/mis-treated.In towns, I think we should adopt the muzzle approach. In the countryside/villages on a lead/long lead or walking free depending on the circumstances.The only bull mastiff I knew from childhood was a gentle giant, but so huge and strong, difficult to control on a lead.If he wanted to go and sniff a flower then no power on earth could stop him, but he was quite a well known and liked dog in the village.We all know that most of the time it's the stupid, or vicious owners to blame.I hate the jumping up with muddy paws thing as well,sometimes the owners apologise and sometimes they just glare at you.However, I do like dogs [don't have one though.]They provide such companionship and loyalty to so many people.

I do have two dogs (A Springer and a Cocker Spaniel) and they are well behaved and responsive. However, I have noticed a profusion of large dogs (Rotts, Dobermans, Staffies, other humungeous breeds that I have no idea what they are) around here over the past 3 or 4 years. They tend not to be well behave and my youngest dog (Cocker Spaniel) has had many dogs try to attack him and yet he's the sweetest, most gentle dog you'd ever meet. The beaches now seem to be full of marauding, large dogs that I no longer take my two to the beach. The local walks are also overrun with them (plus other dogs walkers tell you of their horror stories of what happened to their dogs) so that walk is out. My thigh injury prevents me taking my two up into the hills for a run so they are now just on a lead walk around the streets.

I'm glad it's not just me that has become nervous of them.

I did mention this to the local police (aggressive dogs that is) and the advice was 'we all know what happens in those places so it's probably best you walk your dogs somewhere else'! I can't help but feel that's the wrong approach to these aggressive, out of control dogs: it gives them the freedom to run, play and have fun whilst those who have become nervous walk their dogs on leads.

I do think that anyone who has a dog that is known to be aggressive, if that dog is seen to be menacing in public, the owner should be arrested the same as if he was carrying a weapon.