Redefining Obesity?

I don't think Mr Kaltoft has any grounds for complaint, as he cannot do his job properly. However, I think his employers should have [maybe they did] give him many warnings that his weight was spiralling out of control, and that he may lose his job unless he did something about it.Obese people [unless it's a glandular thing] cannot be expected to be seen as victims, they must do something about their weight with help from doctors etc.Weight doesn't pile on overnight after all.The problem is that in the West, obesity has become commonplace, and instead of being accommodating [which kind of says it's ok to be fat] people have to take charge of their own bodies. Walk more, eat less.

Would a wheelchair-bound person be given a job as a childminder in the first place? If a disability prevents one from doing certain things that a job requires to be done, it's not discrimination in the unfair sense. It is discrimination in the sense of distinguishing between a person who can physically and mentally do a job and a person who can't, which is what job interviews are for, isn't it?

Whilst I agree in general with what you say roses I don't agree with your point about medical help. I am not convinced that doctors do help very much with weight issues. They like to weigh you for anything these days - even if you go with a skin complaint. Presumably they have targets for this, with financial rewards, as with so many other checks. But what practical use is that? The standard response to asking for help re weight is to dish out a diet sheet. It's like giving a drug addict a sheet of instructions re medicating. It doesn't work.

Very few people went to gyms and did all the visible exercise we see every day around us in the fifties and sixties yet most had little trouble keeping slim. I am sure it's something to do with what is in our food - trans-fats, sweeteners etc. but also with the huge increase in car ownership. We walked everywhere when we were young as we had no cars and little money for fares. That must have helped.

Also, schools had proper PE and games lessons in their timetables which involved hard effort and proper workouts three or four periods a week. Thirdly, it was regarded as bad manners to eat in the street yet today people seem to graze non-stop. Maybe a return to three meals a day and no eating between meals might help with weight issues.

Demonising the overweight and obese does not encourage or help them and certainly does nothing to ascertain the reasons for it. It has to be several factors, not just eating too much and doing too little. Then only this week there was a press report stating that fitness is the most important thing and being overweight can actually provide protection in illness.

I wish there were easy answers but I fear not.

If obesity prevents someone from doing tasks that a job requires, they clearly do not satisfy the job's requirements, so why should an employer employ them for that particular job?

Similarly, if a person gets a certain job before they become obese but then becomes unable to keep their side of the job contract, then hasn't the employer a right to dismiss them from that particular job? A contract is a contract is a contract. Works two ways.

This is a very interesting debate Holly Daze if a person is physically unable to do the job then they should not continue. Can he actually get down to floor level and back to interact with children.?

I am afraid I am inclined to think that food "addictions" etc, should not be allowed to be used as an excuse. There are very few conditions where compulsive eating is a feature of a diagnosable condition.

Very overweight people do manage to lose lots of weight. Addictions can be overcome.

To me though the question of how an addiction could be to blame in the now very large %tage of the population that are now overweight is very clouded.

How about a law putting food marketing adverts, portion sizes and the availability of ready meals back to where they were before this crisis took hold and the seeing what happens to the nations weight.
Not possible I know but it might provide interesting results.

Look what can be done to reduce or eliminate the progression of pre diabetes.
www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/newcastle-study-600-calorie-diet.html

I agree with roses. Food is lovely. I love crisps, cakes and chocolate as most people do. I also know that if I stuff my face with these things, I will become fat. I eat them in moderation and I am not overweight (maybe a pound or two). I realise that there are some medical conditions that cause a person to become overweight but in the main it is a case of eating too much and not moving enough. I also realise that some folks have horrible lives and they use food as a comfort. I have had a pretty horrible life myself but I still manage to exercise restraint. If a person is obese due to over eating and lack of exercise it is nobody's fault but their own. It can't be compared to someone with a disability or an illness. I know it's not easy, but Mr Kaltoft should sort himself out.

If obesity was seen as a disability in its own right, would that mean obese people could claim disability allowance, have special parking privileges etc?

Yes petallus it would, so then they need walk even less!They could stop right outside the door of the supermarket or takeaway.

It's true there are many reasons that people allow themselves to become horribly overweight, but they still have to take charge of their own lives and bodies. If you stuff yourself with takeaways, chips and crisps etc it's not rocket science to work out what will happen.Booze is full of calories as well.I know one man who became almost 30 stone by living in this way, but lost half of that by eating sensibly and taking a walk every day.It can be done.

My mother was born 9th of 10 children in 1917. She lived through all of the austerity and wars of the 20th century and had 5 children of her own. She was fat, not obese but fat. We were a relatively poor family who did not have sweets, buns or treats and this has carried through to my life.
I eat sensibly, physically cannot gorge can leave sweets and chocolates until they go off, was a fanatical exerciser in my 40s, but then the weight started creeping on and now I am fat. My daughter also eats sensibly, is just into her 40's and I can see the tell-tale signs appearing on her.

Over the centuries humanity has been patting itself on the back for increases in height due to better nutrition. Probably the increase in girth is part of the same phenomenon and is more down to genetic or hormonal issues than food addictions or overeating. I have been in the company of thin people who would work their way through a buffet like a locust and still remain thin whilst others would pile on the weight with a vol au vent!
Obese people should not be discriminated against within the workplace, but they should understand their limitations when applying for work.

There are some temporary disabilities that prevent people from doing things like this childminding job, so he could have been suspended until he lost sufficient weight to be able to fulfil that role (perhaps he was - I haven't read about him). I don't go along with the idea of colluding with claims that obesity IS a disability - it can certainly contribute to becoming disabled because of the conditions that can arise from being morbidly obese, but in itself - no.

Yes petallus it would, so then they need walk even less!They could stop right outside the door of the supermarket or takeaway.

What if the obese person has mobility problems?

^ I have been in the company of thin people who would work their way through a buffet like a locust and still remain thin whilst others would pile on the weight with a vol au vent!^

I once mentioned that to my GP (I have to watch what I eat but a friend of mine could eat the entire contents of Cadbury's and I doubt she would gain and ounce!) and my GP said that everyone is born with a given number of fat cells and it is that number that will determine if you are prone to easy weight gain or not.

I struggle with my weight, but I know that being overweight is down to me and only I can do something about it. This chap can't do his job so after the relevant warnings which I am sure he will have had, his employers are right to sack him. Maybe he can do another job, but he cannot look after children while in that physical state. It is interesting to just stop and look around you sometimes, or just at groups of people on the tv, in a crowd. You will see that the majority are noticeably overweight. It has become normal to be overweight, if not obese, and this cannot be right. This man chose to eat, nobody held him down and poured fat down his throat, so he should take responsibility and stop crying about being a victim.

If this is linked to being obese then helping them to walk less will be counter productive.If an already disabled person has simply become fat[ maybe through being disabled] then that is a different matter.Simply saying, I am fat, so cannot walk far, will not do.

my above message was in answer to Holly about disabled parking.

I am far from slim myself, and it is a battle to stay within limits [ie not going up another size!]Genetics does play a big part in it as well,] but we have to be on the alert not to reach gigantic proportions.

I have just been reading about everyday things that can make us fat - and I'm a bit surprised!

Flouridated tap water can increase your weight: Fluoride can cause individuals to gain weight because it makes it difficult for the body to absorb iodine. Iodine supports thyroid function and when we're not able to get enough of it, our metabolism is slowed down.

Crash dieting and fasting

Stress (because it releases a hormone called cortisol which is responsible for storing fat, especially abdominal fat)

Sleep deprivation slows down the body's metabolism the next morning – meaning less calories are burnt off.

Smoothies and fruit juices (hidden sugars and ingerdients)

Many allergy sufferers find that the use of antihistamines increases their appetite. Some antihistamines are so effective at increasing hunger that they're prescribed to anorexic patients as an appetite stimulant.

Hidden dangers everywhere in the fight against flab!

Gagagran

Very few people went to gyms and did all the visible exercise we see every day around us in the fifties and sixties yet most had little trouble keeping slim. I am sure it's something to do with what is in our food - trans-fats, sweeteners etc. but also with the huge increase in car ownership. We walked everywhere when we were young as we had no cars and little money for fares. That must have helped.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't remember people being particularly overweight when I was younger and I can't remember one friend of mine that was. I do think we have become much more sedentary but I have also heard people say that the chemicals used in our food and in modern farming practices also doesn't help.

Would a wheelchair-bound person be given a job as a childminder in the first place?

I was attempting devil's advocate and failed dismally with that suggestion; my apologies.

It certainly does provide plenty of thoughts on the matter - I remember a work colleague losing her job because she was continually off sick with smoking-related illnesses yet refused to give up after her doctor told her to. Bronchitis every year which used to take her three months to recover from, laryngitis, the main office sounded dreadful when she was in it always hacking away. Of course we felt sorry for her - until we saw her sneak outside for a crafty fag yet again. I doubt very much that she is still alive. When she left I missed her because she was such a character, but people were always having to do her work as well as their own and it just wasn't fair.

There is little medical help for obesity from GPs as they are not incentivised to do it as they are with heart disease and diabetes etc (they receive additional payments for patients with these and other disorders) so apart from the odd nagging few practices have a weight clinic or similar support to offer although some may pay for the occasional patient at slimming club. The problem has literally to become HUGE before something is done and then it all seems to be bariatric surgery of various types. These depts. are growing(1) in hospitals. There was a programme recently on Channel 4 abut the largest unit of its kind just outside Newcastle who have 5 full time bariatric surgeons and say they need 7.

It's all down to gut flora apparently...but that's not a cop out for the obese. Seemingly unhealthy sugar and fat laden diets destroy 'good' gut flora.

at least in mice

For those who prefer a more 'scholarly article' just google Obesity and gut flora. Now where did I put my Yakult?

I think that some most food companies try to promote a lack of exercise as the cause of obesity rather than eating too much high calorie food. Do not be fooled.

A lot of people eat so many calories that doing enough exercise to compensate is nigh on impossible. Reducing portion size and sugar and fat intake would help a lot

Unfortunately the supermarkets do nothing to help with this issue. They have shelves full of products designed to encourage snacking.