EU - in or out?

I have a daughter in law who is Spanish, and another who is Danish. Do I say to them that I do not think they are as important as I am in my grandchildren's lives? Do I say that only the UK matters? Or should I say that we are all Europeans and their culture is just as important to me and my family.
My ex daughter in law is half Norwegian and half American.
I have learnt a lot from all of them and their families about how people can live together, and about their different customs, all of which are as valuable as UK ones.
I think gut feeling is as valuable. After all, we all vote for MPs on what we believe, and what the experts tell us, and look where that got us!
Eloethan, I think we are not supposed to want to know about the TTIP.
How many people on here have actually read up about what it will mean to the EU? It'll be too late for the referendum, we will already be part of the TTIP. And we will have lost our NHS.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1RpGGFA4EQ

This is for all of you who want out of the EU. You should be thinking of what the TTIP will do to our sovereignty.
At least we can find out about the EU and possibly have a vote. If the TTIP gets accepted, we will have no control over lots of things.

Those who have businesses, which are you more worried about, the EU or the TTIP?

'The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) is a trade agreement that is presently being negotiated between the European Union and the United States.'

So how exactly would staying IN the EU benefit the UK in that respect, durhamjen? Surely it would make more sense to get OUT?

My point was that the TTIP is more important than the EU. If the TTIP gets passed, it will not matter whether we are in the EU or not. Once the TTIP gets agreement, there will be no going back. There will be no point in a vote on whether we stay in the EU or not.
The TTIP negotiations will be over before we get a vote on the EU.
All parties in the UK want the TTIP, apart from the Green Party and the NHAP. TTIP overrides any EU agreements. For example, if we are out of the EU and decide we do not want GM, Monsanto will be able to sue the government for loss of profits. It will be able to do this even if we are in, unless the Green group in the EU gets changes to the TTIP.

Which isn't very likely, let's face it.

ttip2014.eu/

A green party member from Austria is the vice president of the European Parliament now.
A woman, as well!
The Green party is having discussions with Juncker.

Exactly rosequartz this Thursday will be the third school day my grandchildren have missed this year due to the school not being open when it should have been two days of which were teachers strikes ! How dare they preach about parents taking their children out of school!

Despite such a low union turnout for the strike vote - any comments, durhamjen?

What about parents who can't rely on GPs to step in and help?
I was a TU member but never actually went on strike.

A digression, back to the OP

Over 50% of them voted to strike. In fact I think it was over 80% of those who bothered to reply.
For a union to call a strike there are very strict rules. They have to have a postal vote of all eligible members. If the rest of them did not want to strike, all they had to do was send in their votes. They were quite happy to go along with the majority, even if it was a majority of the 27% who replied.
The fact that it has taken two years from that vote shows that the union was willing to negotiate. Unfortunately the government wasn't.
Sorry, gillybob, but teachers are not childminders.
They are just very frustrated with this government.

Gillybob, it's not the teachers who made up the rules about not taking children out of school. It's Michael Gove. The schools just get the blame.

Turnout of 27% - worse than the 35% turnout for the EU elections

No teachers are not childminders - they are teachers
Children learn from their actions as well as their words.

durhamjen I agree with most of what you say but the TTIP Agreement is being discussed between the EU and the US - the EU is not a powerless bystander but a participant in these secretive discussions. This suggests to me that the the EU is not a transparent and accountable body. Because of its size and complexity, discussions can take place and deals can be done that may well have far-reaching effects for all EU citizens, without the knowledge or consent of the people that they are supposed to be representing.

It's bad enough having a government that is in hock to huge corporations and financial institutions, without having an even more remote body giving yet more power to them.

A lot of MPs were elected on a smaller proportion of the vote, though, rose. It wasn't a turn-out. It was a postal vote. They all had their voting slips, and were quite happy to go along with the majority.
Children learn from their parents' actions and words. I remember being told by a kid that he didn't need to learn to add up because he'd take over his dad's business and his dad had told him that he'd earn more than me. He was bigger than me so I didn't argue too much.
Parents who take their children out of school for holidays cannot then complain when the teachers go on strike. Actually, it's the caretakers that close the schools, not the teachers, so I was told. If there are no cleaning or catering staff, all the other ancillary jobs where people are paid minimum wage, and have had enough of that, then the schools cannot open.

I agree about that, Eloethan, but at least in Europe there is a sizeable body to try and change the TTIP. In the UK, there is only one MP who is against the TTIP, as far as I can tell.

ttip2014.eu/blog-detail/blog/TTIP%20US%20lobbying%20law.html

This is about how the EU is trying to block the US from changing our food laws. If it wasn't for the EU here, we could be forced to accept GM maize, etc.

I agree that teachers are not child minders durhamjen they are paid (well) to do a job, which on at least two occasions this year they have not done. I also think there is becoming a blame shifting attitude towards the fines for taking time out of school too. Having had a recent conversation with my DGC's head teacher I was told that time out during term time was "at her discretion" and if she allows the time out there is no fine. If she does not allow the time out then she refers this to the relevant authority, so now I am confused.

The thing that really maddens me is that most parents do not work in the public sector, in massive departments. Most parents work in the private sector and can't just plead " my child's teachers are on strike, therefore I will not be coming in/ working flexi time" or whatever. Many parents will be in fear for their jobs and be docked a days wages.

Sorry for being a bit off topic but I simply had to offer some kind of reply.

gillybob

Having said that I do believe that DC's intentions are not that we leave the EU but that we fight to regain/retain control of our country and not live and work under the thumb of the rest of Europe.

That would probably be the best solution for everyone but I can't see it happening as the 'superstate' is the ultimate goal.

Eloethan

our membership of the EU, seeing it as yet another layer of largely unaccountable and undemocratic control.

That was one of Farage's main complaints: that many of the decisions to be taken are not open for all MEPs to vote on - just a few; that makes me wonder why...

82.5% of members voted, in a ballot, that they were in favour of walkouts but only 27% of members bothered to turned up.

From what I understand, the NASUWT is the UK's largest teaching union - did they vote to strike as well or is it just the NUT?

Sorry - meant to add that it was 82.5% of 27% attendees - even from those who turned up, they didn't get 100% support for the strike.

EU is not a transparent and accountable body. Because of its size and complexity, discussions can take place and deals can be done that may well have far-reaching effects for all EU citizens, without the knowledge or consent of the people that they are supposed to be representing

And that, for those of us who do not support the EU, is the one of the overriding reasons for wanting out of the EU.

Actually, it's the caretakers that close the schools, not the teachers, so I was told

If there aren't any teachers present to carry out teaching duties, there wouldn't be much point in the school being open.

How ridiculous it is to say that "it's caretakers who close schools" .

Yes obviously they turn the bloomin' key but the school closes because the teachers don't bother their backsides to turn up and do their job and teach!

Sorry last comment in reply to durhamjen and not HollyDaze who posted the quotation.