Rotherham Child Abuse

The Animal Farm reference hit the spot FlickeyB

As far as I can see the 'political correctness' that some posters are blaming for the appalling response to the Rotherham grooming/paedophile crimes is not a main strand in the report.

In fact if police et al had been more 'politically correct' they would have been standing up for the underdog and victim ie the vulnerable young women and girls. Instead they dismissed them as silly & troublesome girls.

Rape and sexual exploitation is about control and power (see celebrities e.g.Jimmy Saville, priests, music teachers etc plus the Rotherham men) over the victim/s . One has to ask questions about how to prevent situations happening again and finding out why it was possible for these men to carry on for so long, despite alarms being raised. It is about preventing the context, the 'perfect storm' that enables such crimes to carry on for so long.
If it about different cultural values, misogyny, sexploitation in the media, poor training for police/SW or whoever it needs to be explored. That does not detract from the perpetrators' responsibility for the crimes they have committed and for which they must be punished.

I understand Jimmy Saville was a Roman Catholic as have been a high number of priests convicted of long term child sexual abuse. Is anyone suggesting that sex abuse is a particular issue for Roman Catholics as a faith group generally?

How can we sort out the police, councillors, social workers, care homes, agencies, government directives, racial pc-ness, class issues, conference initiatives and a whole host of other directives?

Well, how about leaving all that to filter down, as it will in some measure, although I'm not holding my breath, but have to believe that it will get better. A lot of energy will be used in addressing all of this.

Dreadful damage has been done already, and is still being done. So how about looking at the how and what can be done for the young girls who have experienced such devastation to prevent a future of continuity throughout generations. The why is already known. Let's look at the impact that physical injury, shame, understanding the complexity of grooming, alcohol and drug dependency, homelessness, psychiatric problems, self-harm, the breaking of historical patterning, and help them to grow up and develop loving and trusting relationships. To develop confidence and self-esteem, to do away with 'the poor girls'. to do away with 'they will never recover', to do away with the anonymity of shame and mistrust, to do away with the victim mentality. These young girls will become women, who will most probably go on to have children or already have done so. This is where the chain must be broken. They do have a future, and a good one, if they are held with confidence, care and understanding.

A view on sexual grooming

That's an interesting article, ffinnochio, in that it goes some way to describe how westernised young Asians live alongside a culture that is quite alien to their parents or grandparents. It doesn't acknowledge that so many have navigated that divide now and have lapsed in their adherence to Islam, or can move between the different cultures with ease and without exploiting others.

There's an assumption that all young Pakistanis are devout and believe all their parents and Imams taught them about the Muslim faith, but it isn't the case. Just like in any other society, the young are often curious and will question and challenge the status quo. The ones we hear about are those that clash dramatically with what has been imposed on them. Many rub along with tolerance on both sides, like to follow tradition when there's a family event and benignly roll their eyes with the same look on their face that young white British people do when in similar circumstances.

The large numbers of Asian people here in Manchester generally integrate and the younger family members help out their elders whose English is not fluent. The sheer numbers living around here clearly would not fit into the mosques that are available - many never, or rarely, go - some pray five times a day, many don't. There's a local name, 'curry Muslim' which is used by Asian people to describe those well-integrated people who like certain aspects of Islam, but aren't practising Muslims.

Demonising good people because of the bad apples in the barrel does nothing to address child sexual exploitation and the communities from where these offenders have come reject their behaviour in the same way that predominantly white communities reject the horrendous offences committed by notorious rapists and murderers. Ask them!

Who are the MPs for Rotherham? Did they know? If not, why not?

If Shaun Wright is really sorry, he should offer to give his very large salary to charity and work for free. This is the guy that is supposed to be overseeing the work of the police and who was previously overseeing the work of social services in Rotherham.
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The MP for Rotherham is Sarah Champion who was elected in 2012. I saw her interviewed last evening and found her impressive. I have no idea how much of this she would have been aware of.

If teachers/headteachers had concerns and the police were no use, why didn't they write to their MPs and follow it up if the MPs fobbed them off?

Good article by Ghaffar Hussain. Thanks, ffinn.

Who knows if they did or didn't. The only people who have the power and authority to act are the police. That's where the bulk of the blame for inaction lies.

I have written to various MPs over the years when I and my senior managers have been concerned about lack of action when child abuse allegations have been reported. Our CEO has spoken directly to the chief constable to say these exchanges are happening when nothing resulted from letters sent, except for a receipt. Often, the MPs speak to their police contact and get reassurance it will be followed up but no-one checks. I have been told at risk meetings with the police that the people I am reporting are known to them and being watched, but they don't have the resources to cover team surveillance which runs into tens of thousands for a couple of weeks. I have been wrapped on the knuckles for persisting and told the police are a) looking at the bigger picture and gathering intelligence on paedophile rings, so basically 'butt out' and b) told I have to understand that the police have to prioritise resources and major investigations draw officers away from such concerns that have been raised.

The most effective, and riskiest, way to catch the offenders is when a child is in their company, but warning them off doesn't stop them. They bide their time and wait for things to die down, then start again. Most of these Rotherham offenders don't have previous convictions for sexual abuse - once they're in the system and registered they're easier to keep tabs on. Couple all that with a police area that is behind with training to understand sexual abuse (except for overburdened specialist teams who will be dealing with a small number of complaints effectively) and you have the general scenario for much of England and Wales. There are more Rotherhams out there.

when

The fact that Pakistani boys are told to get their experience with 'trashy' white girls before they marry a nice clean Virgin Pakistani wife has been known for decades in the northern mill towns. I know, I come from one. Unfortunately the girls are often vulnerable, hormonal and flattered by the attention of good looking Asian men who promise marriage. These girls were/are not usually the types of girls who would listen to advice or would be bothered what the rest of their peers thought.
However, even though the practice is endemic, most people in these towns were not aware of the depth of the depravity. Some of these towns are so culturally divided that parallel communities prevail who dislike each other and rarely co-exist. Bullying and racism against the indigenous population is rife with many averse to speaking up because they know it would be them that are blamed as racist so they just 'leave it'.
It is a very complex situation in these towns which will be very difficult to resolve as long as the racist card is so easy to use.

The MP for Rotherham until 2012 ie when all of this was going on, was one Denis MacShane en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_MacShane who has just been released from gaol after serving a sentence for fraud. There is something very wrong in Rotherham.

Joelsnan that's a sweeping generalisation. You may hear these stories and know of a few, but that is not how the majority of Pakistani families who share many of the same values as us, behave. Likewise, any Pakistani person who believes all white British girls are fair game because of what they see reported on the TV couldn't be more wrong.

Look at the young people in 6th form colleges and universities up and down the country, young people socialising and mixing together much more effectively than our generation. They're not all drunken and promiscuous, being preyed on by young Asian men who want to get some 'experience.' This adds nothing helpful to what is mainly a really good discussion on this thread. Nothing personal.

The work done by the police, social services, councils etc. sometimes feel like working in a labyrinth at times.

I accept that there are poor decisions made, I accept that the authorities from the teachers who are clearly stating they told the necessary services to the leader of the social services and all others involved have to answer Why.

I don't accept that to generalise all of these workers as peddling in the terms that have been used is fair. No more than it is fair to assume the Asian community agrees with those involved in the paedophile ring.

If you are trying your damndest to get through, as Whenim mentioned, whether you are a teacher, police officer social worker, if you hit that brick wall it will not let you pass.

The fact so many cases are in the spotlight whether it be the NHS horror stories or Asian paedophile rings, celebrity paedophiles, religious paedophiles, sadly so many cases of children on social services registers being murdered the list goes on. All of these are being dealt with naturally by the same groups of people who in my opinion are daily seeing the horrors that most of us cannot comprehend just how upsetting the type of work stays with you at work, at home and sometimes in your sleep. That's why I do not generalise.

I do think there is a case of the saying ' A fish rots from the head down' does have a point.

Why though, is it PC, I do believe that is the case very often, is it target driven, is it the having the pips on the shoulder changing attitude What?

I will ask what were the the Elders of the Asian community and the imams doing about this knowledge, they would know.

The whole system has to be given the green light for whistle blowers to feel free to speak, there must be more accountability from those at the top and bottom but they in turn must be able to do their job as fits the case and race, wealth, celebrity or status of any kind must not impede on the truth and who is investigated.

But it has to be remembered why they are required to do the work they do. That is the vile, corrupt members of our society who don't give a damn about you or I and they are the ones that must always be the accused.

Whenim64 I was not making a sweeping generalisation, more an observation having lived in a number of these towns for many years. There are many on this thread ready to pillary authorities with little understanding of the context in which they work. Of course this is horrendous as was Rochdale, Keighley, Oldham, Oxford and the rest. Isn't the trend and cause apparent?
In all instances Police and authorities blamed without dealing with the route cause.
You should go to Batley or Bradford to see how divergent the younger generations have become. This was not the case 20 or so years ago there was some sense of assimilation, but this is evaporating, it is the younger generation wearing the Burkhas and pyjamas. The Indian population do appreciate uk.
Also, I did not infer that the majority of British girls are drunken or promiscuous, I did say that some vulnerable, hormonal girls are flattered by Pakistani male attention and will not take heed of parents or peers, just as most adolescent 'in love's don't. Trouble is in these instances it was sadly misplaced.
Is this a case of not being PC in a mainly good discussion?

Perhaps we should widen this discussion to consider the decline in the standard of public conduct apparent in certain of our towns and cities in the evening and at weekends, aggravated by excessive drinking and often involving teenagers. Such Bachanalian revels make it easy for sexual predators to pounce and start their dreadful grooming process.

So perhaps we should toughen up the police presence on our streets and reduce our tolerance of bad behaviour. As far as I am concerned the police are not social workers and should be encouraged to act robustly, as should the courts. Racial origins should be irrelevant unless one particular part of the community is at fault, in which case community leaders should be included in efforts to stamp out these bad practices. I know that the control of errant teenagers can be difficult, but its not rocket science after all and should be tackled head-on for their sake.

I haven't been able to read all the posts in detail so apologies if this has been covered. This is in response to a post that stated the victims were only white girls. I heard a member of a Pakistani charity in Rotherham say on TV that the victims of this dreadful abuse & professional inaction were not only white girls but were also likely to have included many from the same culture as the perpetrators. She said they were far less likely to take complaints forward for fear of the reaction from their community & the impact on their chances of marriage.

I wonder why Brits feel in appropriate to deal with so called 'community leaders'? We have elected representatives of all neighbourhoods yet feel obliged to speak to unelected mouthpieces who generally do not represent the vast majority of those they purport to represent. We have elected local councillors from every ethnic minority so should only consult these.

The elected representatives at local level are elected by a laughably small number of electors. In my area, there are a variety of community groups who are, and who in my opinion, should be, consulted on a variety of issues as they have contact with a much more diverse group of residents and in depth knowledge of local issues. What is wrong is a group of men speaking for the whole of a specific community and the women, being denied any voice at all.

In Rotherham, the so called elected representatives were a huge part of the problem from whatever background they came from

Gadaboutgran I agree that there us abuse within this culture, but it is mostly familial as we know from the honour killings. I would be surprised if there was the same grooming and sexual exploitation travesty as perpetrated on white females, specifically because of how young Pakistani females are 'protected' by the family.

GrannyTwice That may be the case, but when are Brit community leaders consulted? Are there any? Maybe if only elected representatives were consulted then elections may become more representative. Why vote when the process can be sidelined by any self elected vocalist?
Most younger generation ethnic minorities will say that these so called community leaders do not speak for or represent them.

I was talking about the general principle in any area of consulting with a variety of community groups - I didn't mean it to come across that I was just talking about ethnic communities.