English GN's referendeum

and the Northern Island students have to pay

I didn't hear that Northern Ireland students have to pay but I could have easily missed it - no intent to leave the Irish out of it that aspect of things so my apologies to any NI GNs if that is the case.

I may be wrong Holly but I thought NI students did have to pay tuition fees in Scotland. There is or was a loop hole where if they are able some NI students have applied or obtained an Irish passport which has then enabled them the same as any other EU entrant bar the rest of the UK, free tuition in Scotland.
But if I have this wrong apologies.

Durhamjen - from the links I have read, the request came from the Indian Government to the UK Government not to proceed with the plan in that region as it would harm their own trade routes (with India being one of the colonies at that time, the UK Govt agreed not to support it). I haven't read anywhere that it was to do with slavery but more it seems to have been to do with tapping into trade routes.

This is again highlighted in this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

It's ironic that the vote to introduce university tuition in England and Wales would have been defeated were it not for the Scottish MPs in Westminster at the time.

I wasn't aware of that! Why did they vote for it?

Student mobility is enshrined in EU law, as is the right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of nationality. There is absolutely no precedent of an EU member state successfully applying for derogation from the provisions on student mobility.

From what was said, they are going to ask the EU for it to be considered under exceptional circumstances (though they didn't outline what those circumstances are).

penguinpaperback

I have no idea about how the Irish fare under Scottish university fees - I think my brain must have gone into freeze at the mention of requesting special 'permission' to charge that other stuff must have just floated by!

Gordon Brown has been really impressive in last few days, I think.

What would be to stop a Scottish government from charging tuition fees to everyone, then giving a grant / bursary to Scottish residents?
(Definition of Scottish resident to be worked out at the time of bringing in such a measure.)

I think that's one of the ideas being thought about FarNorth especially if Scotland becomes independent and the rest of the UK is then on the same footing as any other EU country.

Tuition fees for Welsh students are capped. In the case of a £9,000 fee, they pay £3,685 a year and the government will cover the remaining £5,315.

(Just to make it clear that not every other part of the UK pays full whack for university fees. This applies whatever uni a Welsh student attends.)

Farnorth -nothing at all. This is what happens in Wales, although full fees are not paid by the Welsh authorities - I think it is around 50%. This 'way round the problem has been discussed here in Scotland but yet again the powers that be have suppressed the information. Students from the Republic of Ireland get free tuition at Scottish Universities under EU rules (same as French German, etc students), but Northern Irish students have to pay.

Hollydaze Most Scottish MPs are Labour Party so they have to follow the UK Labour Party policy, The Scottish Liberals, whose manifesto had said no tuition fees had to vote in favour of them because they were part of the Coalition Government. The SNP MPs always abstain from England & Wales only debates.

Granny23, please read my last post - just above yours - which sets out the Welsh position...

youtu.be/J39bBV7CBJk

inspirational

Not sure this is the right thread for that, granjura!

granjura why isn't politics like this all the time - so good

Thanks for the information Ana. I was not sure of the position in Wales.

It is a bit more complicated than it seems at first glance in Wales. It depends on the course as well, I understand.

www.studentfinancewales.co.uk/new-students/201415-what-financial-support-is-available/tuition-fee-support.aspx

Not that much more complicated, rosequartz! That's where I got the information from too - the fact remains that Welsh students' fees are capped. Which isn't the case in England.

I think the course has to be approved.

Where does it say that? Anyway, the fact remains...

Perhaps they should spend some of that money on improving the schools in Wales.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25196974

I agree. And I think they should charge at least a minimal fee for prescriptions.

Perhaps their theory is that, even if there is a grant for part of the tuition fees there won't be a large take-up in the future if the schools are poor and fewer students manage to get to university.

Yes, I agree re prescriptions, as the Health Service in Wales has longer waiting times than in England.

So much for devolution. That is why I was half hoping that Scotland votes Yes so that we can have some of that money diverted to Wales!

Would that happen though - realistically?
I agree wholeheartedly that devolution for Wales has not been a great success.