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English GN's referendeum

(255 Posts)
whitewave Wed 10-Sept-14 14:46:44

In view of the fact that we are left totally on the side lines during the upcoming Scottish referendum, I wondered if all the English GN's would like to cast a vote for or against Scotland leaving

So folks - For Scotland leaving your vote should be YES.
Against Scotland leaving vote should be NO

We need an adjudicator (any offers) and perhaps you can give a reason for your vote if you so wish I realize that it will not be a secret ballot but as it doesn't count it shouldn't matter

HollyDaze Wed 17-Sept-14 12:09:25

and the Northern Island students have to pay

I didn't hear that Northern Ireland students have to pay but I could have easily missed it - no intent to leave the Irish out of it that aspect of things so my apologies to any NI GNs if that is the case.

penguinpaperback Wed 17-Sept-14 13:08:26

I may be wrong Holly but I thought NI students did have to pay tuition fees in Scotland. There is or was a loop hole where if they are able some NI students have applied or obtained an Irish passport which has then enabled them the same as any other EU entrant bar the rest of the UK, free tuition in Scotland.
But if I have this wrong apologies.

HollyDaze Wed 17-Sept-14 14:57:38

Durhamjen - from the links I have read, the request came from the Indian Government to the UK Government not to proceed with the plan in that region as it would harm their own trade routes (with India being one of the colonies at that time, the UK Govt agreed not to support it). I haven't read anywhere that it was to do with slavery but more it seems to have been to do with tapping into trade routes.

This is again highlighted in this link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme

HollyDaze Wed 17-Sept-14 15:01:12

It's ironic that the vote to introduce university tuition in England and Wales would have been defeated were it not for the Scottish MPs in Westminster at the time.

I wasn't aware of that! Why did they vote for it?

HollyDaze Wed 17-Sept-14 15:03:33

Student mobility is enshrined in EU law, as is the right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of nationality. There is absolutely no precedent of an EU member state successfully applying for derogation from the provisions on student mobility.

From what was said, they are going to ask the EU for it to be considered under exceptional circumstances (though they didn't outline what those circumstances are).

HollyDaze Wed 17-Sept-14 15:05:42

penguinpaperback

I have no idea about how the Irish fare under Scottish university fees - I think my brain must have gone into freeze at the mention of requesting special 'permission' to charge that other stuff must have just floated by!

granjura Wed 17-Sept-14 18:01:32

Gordon Brown has been really impressive in last few days, I think.

FarNorth Wed 17-Sept-14 19:26:42

What would be to stop a Scottish government from charging tuition fees to everyone, then giving a grant / bursary to Scottish residents?
(Definition of Scottish resident to be worked out at the time of bringing in such a measure.)

penguinpaperback Wed 17-Sept-14 19:37:05

I think that's one of the ideas being thought about FarNorth especially if Scotland becomes independent and the rest of the UK is then on the same footing as any other EU country.

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 20:11:36

Tuition fees for Welsh students are capped. In the case of a £9,000 fee, they pay £3,685 a year and the government will cover the remaining £5,315.

(Just to make it clear that not every other part of the UK pays full whack for university fees. This applies whatever uni a Welsh student attends.)

Granny23 Wed 17-Sept-14 20:27:23

Farnorth -nothing at all. This is what happens in Wales, although full fees are not paid by the Welsh authorities - I think it is around 50%. This 'way round the problem has been discussed here in Scotland but yet again the powers that be have suppressed the information. Students from the Republic of Ireland get free tuition at Scottish Universities under EU rules (same as French German, etc students), but Northern Irish students have to pay.

Hollydaze Most Scottish MPs are Labour Party so they have to follow the UK Labour Party policy, The Scottish Liberals, whose manifesto had said no tuition fees had to vote in favour of them because they were part of the Coalition Government. The SNP MPs always abstain from England & Wales only debates.

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 20:39:15

Granny23, please read my last post - just above yours - which sets out the Welsh position...hmm

granjura Wed 17-Sept-14 20:40:49

youtu.be/J39bBV7CBJk

inspirational

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 20:48:58

Not sure this is the right thread for that, granjura!

whitewave Wed 17-Sept-14 20:59:16

granjura why isn't politics like this all the time - so good

Granny23 Wed 17-Sept-14 21:03:06

Thanks for the information Ana. I was not sure of the position in Wales.

rosequartz Wed 17-Sept-14 21:20:02

It is a bit more complicated than it seems at first glance in Wales. It depends on the course as well, I understand.

www.studentfinancewales.co.uk/new-students/201415-what-financial-support-is-available/tuition-fee-support.aspx

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 21:32:16

Not that much more complicated, rosequartz! That's where I got the information from too - the fact remains that Welsh students' fees are capped. Which isn't the case in England.

rosequartz Wed 17-Sept-14 21:43:27

I think the course has to be approved.

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 21:44:58

Where does it say that? Anyway, the fact remains...hmm

rosequartz Wed 17-Sept-14 22:06:44

Perhaps they should spend some of that money on improving the schools in Wales.

rosequartz Wed 17-Sept-14 22:08:48

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25196974

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 22:11:41

I agree. And I think they should charge at least a minimal fee for prescriptions.

rosequartz Wed 17-Sept-14 22:18:05

Perhaps their theory is that, even if there is a grant for part of the tuition fees there won't be a large take-up in the future if the schools are poor and fewer students manage to get to university.

Yes, I agree re prescriptions, as the Health Service in Wales has longer waiting times than in England.

So much for devolution. That is why I was half hoping that Scotland votes Yes so that we can have some of that money diverted to Wales!

Ana Wed 17-Sept-14 22:25:05

Would that happen though - realistically? confused
I agree wholeheartedly that devolution for Wales has not been a great success.