English GN's referendeum

Yes, iam64, it is a puzzle why it seems to be acceptable to be offensive about the English but not so when the boot is on the other foot. The reasons? Hard to say if you are English. Envy, spite, grievance? Perhaps some of our non-English members could enlighten us. I think it was either Oscar Wilde or Noel Coward who said something about the English not having to demonstrate their superiority because it is inbred in them, and this irritates other people. I, though being English, find that I can be just as critical of my fellow English compatriots, but that's just me.

Really? I've seen a lot of offensive stuff about the Scots. Mean, drunken, violent layabouts etc etc. Here are a few old ones and there has been much in readers comments on Feferendum news items recently.

We can all scrape the bottom of the barrel of offensivness to try and justify our own perceived prejudices, I'm sure, but sadly low-life exists everywhere. However, there does seem to be a widespread and long-established level of anti-English sentiment amongst many elements of Scottish society. Why? It would be interesting to know.

Perhaps the historic examples of anti-Scots offensiveness in my link have something to do with it? And the inclusion in the British national anthem of that verse about rebellious Scots?

Scotland was the last of the four previously autonomous countries to be merged. It was still "furrin parts" up to the union of the parliaments (despite King James going south to be monarch of both kingdoms.)

Wales and the other old kingdoms had had time to adjust. Ireland was geographically separated and has always been uneasy. Scotland is also geographically separated (even deliveries to some areas are more expensive that most places south of the border - there is a geographical reason for that).

When you are considered a rather backward race on the edge of civilisation, with some amusingly quaint customs to caricature, would you not be a bit resentful? How do you feel if American tourists visiting your town exclaim over the little oldfashioned homes - "A fireplace in every house!"

It's quite simple, England has never been oppressed , the other three countries in the UK have been by England , we cannot change history and we cannot erase the many injustices inflicted .

So difficult to explain, when we speak of British triumphs no matter how long ago it is done with pride, but if a Welsh, Irish or Scots speak of an injustice we are told - that's in the past. I took part in the demonstrations to save Capel Celyn - 1965- all these years on I am still angered by the injustice of it, the apology in the nineties meant not a thing, cannot erase the anguish of those villagers . This is just one tiny part of welsh history and I think that whilst I should let the anger go I cannot because any mention of any injustice is dismissed by some English people as - it's in the past, forget it.

We must celebrate British triumphs no matter how long ago but forget the many injustices

And I will add - I blame the BBC sports reporters, who are unaware that team GB is four countries not England

Elegran When you are considered a rather backward race on the edge of civilisation, with some amusingly quaint customs to caricature, would you not be a bit resentful? How do you feel if American tourists visiting your town exclaim over the little oldfashioned homes - "A fireplace in every house!"

The Some Americans consider the whole of the British Isles and its inhabitants as quaint and old-fashioned, a sort of museum.

I am British (born in England) and have always thought of the Scots as brilliant, innovative people, particularly the engineers, full of enterprise which they have taken to the world.
Sadly, a lot of the history between Scotland and England is violent and oppressive. But surely we have moved on from that and I thought there is now respect between the nations of the United Kingdom. Obviously a lot of people still think differently and old grievances are still simmering and are being brought to the surface.

There will always be the rough element in any society of whom most people are ashamed.

All this panic at the idea of Scotland voting YES makes me suspect that we need them more than they need us.

To clarify, England needs Scotland more than Scotland needs England.

I think Anniebach, that any claim to racial purity by any of the ethnic communities in the UK is folly. We're all mixed-up. And to claim that the English have oppressed is no different to saying that the Welsh, Irish and Scots have done their fair share of pillage and attempted conquest in their time. Out of that violent past fate decreed that the so-called English part of the Kingdom came to dominate the rest. But who are the English? I'm one of 'em - a possible mix of Celt, Roman, Viking, Saxon and lord knows what else. I respect other people's nationalities but I'm proud to be proud to be English and British!

We need each other, Petallus, like it or not. Best to have good relations with your neighbour!

Yes, I'd scrap that part of the National anthem as being totally offensive, and if I were French I'd change a lot of the Marseillaise.

On visits to the US, Elegran, I was often amused and appalled at the ignorance of many average Americans about anything outside their own city, town or state. Many of them had a Hollywood-inspired false impression of their own and everybody else's history. I gave up in the end and drowned my sorrows in Southern Comfort. I didn't find that level of ignorance to be the case in Canada, their problem was apprehension about their powerful but not-so-bright neighbour - know who I mean?

I'm going to shut up now, I'm getting tired of myself!

Elegran And the inclusion in the British national anthem of that verse about rebellious Scots?

If you asked the average British person to sing all the verses of the British national anthem, I doubt that many of them could get past the first verse, and are probably completely unaware about the verse regarding the 'rebellious Scots'. We only usually sing two verses.
Has this verse been deleted officially, as there was talk of doing so as late as 2007?

I think the Welsh National Anthem is stirring and quite emotional.
The Scottish unofficial National Anthem is quite controversial; I have been in the company of Scottish friends at Burns nights (in Wales!) when they have sung it very lustily and I did not join in!
England needs its own official National Anthem regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

Talking about racial purity, I consider myself as British and English, but the truth is that I am a mongrel - On my fathers side we are Cornish with a bit of Devon thrown in, trade with the Meditteranean almost certainly resulted in some of that blood as some of my Cornish relatives have olive skin and very dark hair, on my mothers side we are Yorkshire and Scottish and undoubtedy if we go backfurther there will be Viking as there is a red haired gene in the family that pops up every so often.

So Cornish to the bone is how I feel but history tells me very different. We are better singers than the Welsh though!

papaoscar, I am speaking of the 20th, 19th,18th centuries not the 14th century

whitewave I knew a Cornish girl years ago who said that her ancestry (and her surname) was a result of the Spanish sailors who came over with the Armada and were shipwrecked.
I also heard that Mousehole was sacked by Spanish sailors in the late 1500s.

Not sure Penhaligan is a Spanish surname!!! Doubt whether much marriage took place, but very Spanish is looks though.

To clarify, England needs Scotland more than Scotland needs England.

I keep asking and no-one seems to be able to answer but I wish someone would explain that ^ to me.

It would seem, judging from the posts on here, that not just Scotland but Wales also should seek total independence from the evil English!

Since when have the English been evil!

Wales has devolution, Northern Ireland has devolution, Scotland has ????? Either independence or devolution max and what has the English got?

Wales does not have the resources to go it alone.

Yes whitewave we are all mostly a little bit of everything aren't we? DH is half Scottish (his mother) and half Yorkshire (his father). My maternal grandma was born to Irish immigrant parents.

Anniebach I think the English do still have a bit of a memory about when they were, indeed, oppressed - by the French! Apparently that is how we came to have coroners. So many English were bumping off the French even 200 years later, that no dead person was allowed to be touched until identity and cause of death were established. So 'Crowners' were appointed to come and check that no French had been done away with unlawfully.

I have a Scottish maiden name, I have Irish blood too, and French, as well as English. Yet if asked my nationality, I say English instinctively, not British, much to my BiL's consternation. I have no idea why.

.janerowena, I tried to give an explanation as to some problems between the four countries, I am not bemoaning the stealing of a title hundreds of years ago - even though it should be given back I was explaining injustices which went on in the twentieth century , I don't think the French were oppressing the English at this time. Pointless to try to explain isn't it?

True rosequartz, Wales could not go it alone,

we are not even included in the UK flag anyway and recently had to appeal to be recognised as a country not a principality