English GN's referendeum

Yet I do always think of the Welsh as a separate country. I think we all do, deep down.

Offa's Dyke and the Severn Bridge?

It's only them at Westminster who think Wales isn't a country isn't it? I was always under the impression we're four distinct nations come together as the United Kingdom. Equals. (Well we would be if we had an English Assembly!!). It's mainly that self opinionated lot in Parliament who think differently.

It's interesting that the single thing that seems to unite the English, Welsh, Scots and NI is mistrust and dislike of Westminster politicians.

I wonder why Iam64.

Mind you I am not sure why people trust Salmond. I have a feeling that he will pull off the biggest CON ever if the vote is Yes.

Since when have the English been evil!

Reading some posts on GN (including this thread) is how it often reads.

Yet I do always think of the Welsh as a separate country. I think we all do, deep down.

Agreed - I think most people do see four distinct countries (apart from some politicians).

we are not even included in the UK flag anyway

If Scotland says yes and they have to re-design the Union (?) Jack then will they include the cross of St David or squash a little dragon in the corner somewhere as a concession?

When I look at the distinctive Union Jack flag, I do not see separate flags (although I know they are there) I see one flag red,white and blue. To me it represents decency, safety, pride and a united Great Britain. If the Scottish nationalists get their way and vote to leave the union then so be it. But I think the flag should stay exactly as it is. After all it is our brand.

Iam, you are so right, whilst there are some English who do think England is the UK, I am guilty of assuming fifty nine million do, the injustices rained down have been from Westminster , so I apologise to those who have acknowledged we are a country, thank you x

With the best National Anthem!

whitewave you say : Mind you I am not sure why people trust Salmond. I have a feeling that he will pull off the biggest CON ever if the vote is Yes.

What sort of a CON do you think might be pulled off?

*Since when have the English been evil!

Reading some posts on GN (including this thread) is how it often reads.*

The only reference I see on here to the 'evil' English is your own Hollydaze. Can we have specific examples please of where Scottish G'netters have denigrated the English? The YES campaign is about Scotland's right to self determination - the choice is between being an independent country or remaining in the UK. The complaints are directed at the unrepresentative balance of the Westminster Parlimentary system. If I say, for example, that I object strongly to an unelected bunch of men from the Church of England having the power to block legislation in my Parliament, then this is not because I have anything against the Church of England (each to their own ) but because their Bishops' right to sit in the House of Lords is stunningly undemocratic. I say that mainly as a feminist and agnostic rather than as a Nationalist.

rosequartz, a squashed dragon? most definitely the best National Anthem

I'd say Scottish Gransnetters have been more charitable to the English than non-Scots ones have to the Scots!

Granny23 I would agree with you about the House of Lords and what I think is worse is its growth in recent years, each political party filling it with more and more of their cronies.

However, is that a reason to leave us? Would we be better together and to start a campaign to reform the upper house, to make it leaner and more democratic? That way we could have a chance of some real reforms - this referendum is giving the politicians of all parties a real jolt and perhaps they will start listening.

I hope the dragon wouldn't be squashed, he might not be able to roar and breathe enough fire!

Hasn't that already been tried, rosequartz, about reform of the House of Lords?
The more it is reformed, the more undemocratic it seems to become.
I wouldn't blame the Scots at all if they left us for just that reason, but I would say that, wouldn't I?

I think if they vote no, politicians at Westminster will breathe a huge sigh of relief and carry on as usual.
By the way, I'm English and I do not think I have said anything terrible about the Scottish nation.

Fortunately, granny23, there are only 26 bishops in the Lords.

I agree with you durhamjen when you say I think if they vote no, politicians at Westminster will breathe a huge sigh of relief and carry on as usual. I have no confidence that the promises of "extra powers" will come true, especially as the various parties have differing ideas on what those "powers" should be.

I also think that, after a Yes result, a lot of people in the rest of the UK might think "Why are we putting up with how Westminster treat us?" and might be galvanised to make changes in their political systems.

Redwood is campaigning for an English parliament, he gave an interview this morning

Ancient though I feel at the moment, I did have the pleasure over most of my working life of regularly visiting all parts of the UK (but not Ireland). This enabled me to form my own opinions about what I had seen and the various nationalities I had encountered. My conclusions were, broadly:

1) That the UK is a mainly beautiful country, peopled a group of nations who had formed, after a tempestuous past, a homogenous, tolerant and reasonable society.

2) That national differences were, indeed, evident all over the place, but that in general anybody could travel from north to south to east to west without too much fear of serious intimidation or prejudice. True there were areas of minor differences: southern English people often had a patronising view of northerners, as did those from Yorkshire and Lancashire about each other and southerners. North and south Waleans were the same regarding each other. Lowlands and highlands Scots were often exactly the same, whereas Islanders often regarded themselves more Norse than Scots.

3) That more serious pockets of petty local prejudice did exist: I knew that there were areas and places in Wales and Scotland (and even, sadly, sometimes the north-east of England) where I would be less than well received just because I came from Southern England.

4) That the consequences of the Thatcher years had upset the applecart everywhere - certainly not only in Scotland - leaving the country in a much less united state.

Now, I don't have to justify specific cases of prejudice. If you look hard enough you can always find evidence to confirm your own views and opinions whatever they are (this is one of my gripes at the moment as regards the media in general). I haven't been to Scotland for many years so cannot judge the prevailing mood of the moment on the ground. I suspect, however, that the way this referendum has been handled has reopened many wounds and folk-memories, revived animosities and encouraged sectarianism and racism. I find that certain representatives of the 'yes' campaign have an unpleasantly hostile, aggressive and nationalistic attitude which I am sure is most unhelpful. I hope that it does not result in widespread social unrest.

papaoscar, with respect you have divided Wales into North and South which does show very little knowledge or only fleeting visits to the areas. You omitted Mid Wales and West Wales .

I always got the impression,*AnnieB*, that glorious, geen mid- and western Wales were filled with vast quantities of beautiful scenery and excellent sheep. I remember once trying to obtain a beer or two on Rhyader on a Sunday but that's another story...