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The Ripple Effect?

(26 Posts)
HollyDaze Fri 19-Sep-14 15:26:04

I am browsing the news in the aftermath of the 'Scotland Decides' campaign and it would seem that other areas of England (Manchester and Northumberland in particular) are now wanting to follow suit (article too long to cut and paste):

Linda Colley, professor of history at the University of Princeton, says local governments raised about half of all the money they spent through local taxation.

Today, she says, central government provides more than 80% of of local government funds and dictates how the money is used.

"It's worth considering how much of the current disquiet and disaffection in parts of the UK is caused by the overmighty reach of London which needed to centralise power in order to fight two world wars and has not been all that willing since to surrender power back," she said.

Will clinging onto power be the driving force of Westminster? As centralisation generally doesn't fare so well, if your area wanted, as the Mancunians have a term I shall use theirs, Devo-Manc, would you vote for it?

Tresco Fri 19-Sep-14 15:45:48

If we are going to have devolution for various areas (countries/provinces/regions/cities?) we will have to ban the phrase "post-code lottery". If one are votes for, say, free childcare, and another doesn't, then that would be local democracy at work. If someone doesn't like it, then they have the option to become more involved in the political process to try to change it. Or move. I think it it going to get very complicated, but it could be very interesting.
It's also going to be interesting to see how the English parliament will be sorted out. At the moment, only the English have only one Member of Parliament to represent them, whilst the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish have another layer of government and hence another representative. So will we get another layer, or will English MPs get paid twice to do two jobs...

durhamjen Fri 19-Sep-14 17:07:12

This is similar to another thread. Not that I mind; the more threads about politics and the North South divide the better, as far as I am concerned.

Wheniwasyourage Fri 19-Sep-14 17:47:17

Hear hear, durhamjen! I have been feeling very sad and disappointed today, and am not surprised that our promised (sorry, vowed) "new powers" are disappearing already, but it's heartening to see that people in England are now realising that they, too, are being short-changed and over-centralised. If we can work out a federal system of some sort so that the North-East and North-West of England, the Midlands, the West Country, London and all the other regions who want it, as well as Scotland, Wales and Northern ireland, can have a bit more local control over how they choose to raise and spend their money, the No vote will not be as depressing as I now find it, but may indeed be the start of something new. Start campaigning, sisters!

Gracesgran Fri 19-Sep-14 18:52:27

From the Yorkshire First web site:

"Yorkshire has a larger population than Scotland and an economy twice the size of Wales, but with the powers of neither. We support the devolving of powers to the least centralised authority capable of addressing those matters effectively - within Yorkshire, the United Kingdom and Europe.

The Region should come before party interest every time."

I think they have to realise many people want a big change.

If we are going to devolve some powers down to Assemblies/Parliaments and then have a UK government for all the UK wide issues could we please use it to cut out the House of Lords and reduce the number of MP in the UK parliament.

rubysong Fri 19-Sep-14 19:49:31

The problem with all this devolved government is that if different regions/counties etc. have different tax systems, benefits, health, whatever, whatever then there will be uproar and it will be considered (rightly) unfair. We should all pay the same and get the same.

NfkDumpling Fri 19-Sep-14 20:15:00

I think four countries is enough - if Parliament moved to say Manchester. It would move the centre of gravity and civil servants (who really run the country) from being so precious about all things London.

NfkDumpling Fri 19-Sep-14 20:16:09

and stop civil servants from being.....

durhamjen Fri 19-Sep-14 22:38:06

Tax offices were devolved from London. Lots of your payments, pensions, etc., come from local offices around the country. The main Dss office is in Newcastle, and when we had to claim DLA, we had to deal with offices all round the country.

Unfortunately, that made it easier to reduce the number of employees in each office without too much fuss. Morpeth is losing many jobs in the service industry, mainly office jobs, which is making a problem for the centre of Northumberland.

I quite like the idea of having Northumbria back, from the Humber up to the border and across to the North West. We'd have a population about twice the size of Scotland. All the local newspapers have got together to ask the three main parties to explain how they will ensure the North of England will enjoy a fair share of the nation's prosperity.
90% of taxes go straight to the treasury. If councils were allowed to have the same power as Scotland, we could actually have our fair share of the wealth in this country.

durhamjen Fri 19-Sep-14 22:40:54

Ruby, look at the link I put on earlier on this thread. The North East is already at a disadvantage as far as health is concerned.

Gracesgran Fri 19-Sep-14 22:41:18

They showed a field that is meant to be the centre of England on the news NfkDumpling; it was in Leicestershire. That would do for me.

durhamjen Fri 19-Sep-14 23:52:38

But then they'd have to build a lot of houses on a greenfield site, Gracesgran. I don't think the people of Leicestershire would like it.

NfkDumpling Sat 20-Sep-14 07:12:11

It's Parliament itself which needs to move Jen. The MPs, the Yes Ministers who actually run things. I think it would give them a better perspective to get away from The City.

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sep-14 08:14:46

Houses? Why houses durhamjen We were talking about moving Parliament and with the jobs that come with it I am not so sure they would object.

rubysong Sat 20-Sep-14 13:04:42

I've read the northern echo item and feel more in tune with some of the comments which follow it.
We often hear of the unfairness of 'postcode lotteries', the scale of devolvement currently being discussed in the media will make this inevitable. Problems caused by the north/south divide (Cornwall is in the north category) should be addressed by those we elect to make decisions on our behalf.

durhamjen Sat 20-Sep-14 13:20:02

The comments which follow it are written by trolls who write those sort of comments on any article. They also follow each other around on the internet, and make similar comments on other local newspaper websites.
The same names crop up. I prefer to read the comments in the newspaper.
Unfortunately in many places, those whom we elect to make decisions on our behalf do not have any connection with the local area.

Parliament is a big building, Gracesgran, to be put in the middle of a field. Nimbies will object even more than to houses.
Unless you expect parliament to be held in a big tent?

durhamjen Sat 20-Sep-14 13:26:07

Ruby, the southwest, which I presume includes Cornwall, has a life expectancy of 81.5, the same as London, and a GDP of £23000 per person, quite a bit better than the North East.

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sep-14 15:56:18

^Parliament is a big building, Gracesgran, to be put in the middle of a field. Nimbies will object even more than to houses.
Unless you expect parliament to be held in a big tent?^

I am really not sure what you are trying to achieve by making comments like this durhamjen.

durhamjen Sat 20-Sep-14 17:37:29

Just pointing out that you suggested moving parliament to a field in Leicestershire.

"They showed a field that is meant to be the centre of England on the news NfkDumpling; it was in Leicestershire. That would do for me"

Unless that's not what you meant , in which case I do not understand why you made that comment, Gracesgran.

FarNorth Sat 20-Sep-14 18:13:28

I think a good start would be to bring in Proportional Representation for the election of MPs instead of the ridiculous 'first past the post' for each area, which often results in people voting for someone they do not want, in an attempt to keep out someone they really really do not want.

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sep-14 18:14:56

Obviously you will see, if you read what I wrote, that that was not what I suggested. Your comments aren't even funny durhamjen, just tiresome.

If you want to be taken seriously, which you appear to, perhaps you could do the same for others and stop making such silly comments.

FarNorth Sat 20-Sep-14 18:15:36

By the way, I wonder how many of the UK residents who are now making so much fuss about their wish for devolution had any idea that anything at all interesting was happening in Scottish politics before a week or two ago.

FarNorth Sat 20-Sep-14 18:18:08

Gracesgran, Like durhamjen I have no idea what your post about the field is intended to mean. Maybe you could explain?

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sep-14 18:25:51

Why do you need me to explain? My original comment was to someone else, as it said in the post. Perhaps reading before commenting would help; if it doesn't just leaving well alone may.

I will not be replying to any more of this silliness.

Ana Sat 20-Sep-14 18:42:47

Obviously Gracesgran was referring to Leicestershire as being a suitable place to site Parliament. Not the field.

I agree that deliberate misunderstanding is not funny, or clever.