"I've never seen anything like it!"

I think people put up a flag for many reasons. There is a house not far from me where they fly a flag on a flagpole which is sometimes a union flag ( because their son is in the army), sometimes a St. George's flag (when England are playing). Occasionally I have seen a Welsh flag or a Saltire. A nicer family you could not wish to meet. They are certainly not racists or members of the BNP. For goodness sake, can we not take people as we find them instead of applying narrow stereotypes?

Exactly. Or are we expected to believe that Emily Thornberry is just one bad apple?

But MiceElf, surely that is what we expect from Conservative and sadly, LibDem politicians now. No less despicable, but predictable. If Labour politicians are to become just the same, then where is the party of the left? Or have we given up on 'white van man' because we don't like his (perceived) values? I think the Labour Party needs to decide just who it wants to represent now there is no clear cut working class any longer.

Dont you put a flag outside your house because you 'want' to be judged though?

I know of two people who put up a flag.
I think it is a mixture of wanting to be noticed, wanting to be loyal to a particular team or place, and wanting to exhibit a devil may care, I have a hard attitude [sort of dont mess with me].

I am not sure that they wanted to be judged exactly, I am not sure that they realise that they are being judged.

Hmm, when it comes to sneering attitudes what about those senior Tories who refer to the unemployed as skivers and shirkers?

What about George Osborne who spoke of 'the closed blinds of those sleeping on benefits'?

What about Lord Freud who said that disabled people weren't woth the minimum wage?

And what about the Editor and staff of the Sun who refer to their readers as 'plebs' and who make jokes about walking on sticky carpets if they have to interview a person in a Council House?

These are the sneering attitudes which are despicable.

I dont think that this episode is going to help Labour so near to an election.
I have a theory that a lot of stuff that happens more than 6 months before an election is largely forgotten or ignored by a large swathe of voters. This incident is too near.
Some of politics is difficult to understand. But this is quite easy. And it comes with a handy picture if other politicians and ad men etc want to make political points from this.

Ana, knitting as I speak.

soontobe "Would the outrage have been quite so great if Emily Thornberry had been a man" Impossible men weren't allowed to stand in her constituency Just like her namesake Emily Howard, she's a laydee, otherwise she wouldn't have got on to the "all laydee shortlist"

Nightowl

Precisely.

Actually rosesarered I'm left leaning and I'm furious that this came from a labour politician. I would have expected no better from a conservative politician.

Actually I don't think it matters one bit what reasons this man had for putting three flags outside his house. We can each choose to judge him based on our own perceived reasons for doing so, which will inevitably involve our own prejudices.

The fact is, he did not ask for this publicity, she had no right to publish the photo and to draw attention to it, and the fact that she did calls into question both her intelligence and her political judgement. I'm very glad she has resigned from the shadow cabinet but I seriously wonder what she has to offer the Labour Party if it really wishes to still be considered a party of the left. I wish she would take her lack of understanding and her sneering attitude out of politics altogether.

If this had come from a Conservative MP [man or woman] the outrage would be even greater than it is, especially with all our left leaning friends on G'net! They would have had a field day with it. But it came from a Labour MP, oh dear me.
POGS and TerriBull good posts from both of you.
Mylene Klass isn't far out with her observations on London house prices, as a friend of mine was looking at houses for her son and family [Stoke Newington] a semi or terraced was almost a million.Some were over a million pounds.He only wants a small house.

soontobe, surely we grans should knit our own...

Don't you put a flag outside your house because you 'want' to be judged though?

They only seem to cost about £6 whenim64!

Would the outrage have been quite so great if Ms Thornberry had been a] a man or b] a Conservative MP? [or both].

a. I think the outrage would have been greater if it had been a man. I think that men notice things about blokes more than women do? So for a man to have commented on how the Rochester man was in exactly the same way as the woman mp would have been more surprising.
b. No. I think that the British electorate as a whole have come to expect that from Conservative MPs. The surprise is that this time it has come from a Labour one.

Would such patriotism be more acceptable in an upper class person rather than white van man I wonder?

Interesting question.
I do think that where celebrities in particular and in general lead the way, others follow. So the answer may indeed be yes.

MiceElf,

A few, as you requested.

The Daily Mirror article written by one Edward Miliband stated:-

"Respect is the basic rule of politics and there is nothing unusual or odd about having England flags in your window". 'That is why she was right to resign"

Chris Bryant Labour MP when questioned about it in the early hours of the morning the Rochester and Strood count tried to defend her but even he said:-

"My heart sank when I saw it because in the end the first rule of politics is 'surely you respect' the voters' and by Emily's own admission she didn't do that in the tweet she put out and she's done the right thing"

Bryant went on to say:-

"Look the Labour Party was founded to try and say that everybody is 'equal' in the world and you shouldn't 'scorn' anybody else, you shouldn't suggest that anybody is any different and you shouldn't 'judge' somebody according to whether they have a flag outside their house"

Simon Danckzuk Labour MP

John Mann Labour MP

Others interviewed on t.v can't remember their names.

I think Labour MP Chris Bryant summed it up best .

Perhaps we should all start putting English flags up and completely confound UKIP in their search for potential converts!

Which reinforces the stereotype somewhat....

My Gardner is a staunch England football supporter and flies the flag when appropriate! He also drives a white van with his gardening logo on the side!
He lives in a council house which he is buying.
He is thinking of voting UKIP as he's fed up with our MP (as am I )

Would such patriotism be more acceptable in an upper class person rather than white van man I wonder?

Isn 't the Queen known for hanging flags outside her houses?

Wel, at least I've learned a new word today!

Precisely so Tegan. The mentions on here of the Islington house and so forth carry exactly the same implications as the picture of the white van.

We all draw meanings from images and symbols that we see based on our experience.

There are plenty of slums in Islington and there plenty of decent chaps who drive white vans, but to pretend that those images are either meaningless, and therefore no offence was caused, or alternatively to assert that making assumptions on the basis of past experience about those images is unacceptable, are both ridiculous positions.

Would the outrage have been quite so great if Ms Thornberry had been a] a man or b] a Conservative MP? [or both]. Which means [assuming that the answer would be 'no'] that at least the great British electorate 'expect' more from Labour MP's than the rest. Also, I don't think of myself as a snob [nothing to be snobbish about] but my heart sinks when I see Union Jacks or English flags draped outside houses [unless the English football team are playing] and I immediately form a negative opinion of whoever resides in that house .

Do share the list POGS

"those who 'declared' the voter should be respected didn't bother to engage their brains before speaking"

Well that's told Ed Miliband and most of the Labour MP's I've heard.