Ashamed to be human

We cannot go through life never being judgemental - sometimes it is appropriate. Not everything can be condoned; there are issues of right and wrong. Is it racist to say that Germany was wrong to persecute and exterminate minorities?

Philosophers have long debated where the line should be drawn and sought a definition of objective right and wrong - if we say that all religious practices are fine and we are not allowed to express a negative view, then how, for instance do we stop little girls being mutilated?

There is a difference between denigrating a group for who they are (that is racism) and challenging practices that we find unacceptable (that is legitimate debate). For example, it is fundamentally wrong to condemn someone for their racial origin (e.g.being a Jew) but it is fine to say that there are some practices that you find objectionable (e.g. circumcision). That is not a racist statement, it is a legitimate expression of distaste for an action that you find unacceptable.

There is no certainty about what is right and wrong - but there are different views on this, and it is fine to express them.

I make no apology for stating that I find the waste of food involved in the OP wasteful and unacceptable.

This thread is not anti Hindu soontobe and I'm sorry you think it is. No doubt GNHQ will decide. This practice is something that some Hindus do in a very specific region of Nepal. Most Hindus (I believe) do not support the practice and do not support blood sacrifice and would not be at all offended by the thread. Indeed, Hinduism is often quoted as one of the most peaceful of religions, alongside Buddhism. Many Hindus are vegetarian for religious reasons. I have nothing but respect for that and for the Hindus I have known, vegetarian or otherwise. However I cannot agree that we must not speak out against unspeakable things done in the name of religion. There have been many such threads on gransnet and I am not aware that any has been reported before

I looked at the link. Am I missing something? How is it that this wholesale slaughter of animals in Napal is 'unspeakable' and the hugely cruel practices and widespread slaughter of animals in Europe is not?

I don't disagree that many practices in the west are unspeakable petallus. As I said earlier, where does that leave us? Are we not to speak out against practices in other countries/ cultures because we are not perfect either.

I have reported my own thread to add to soontobe's reporting of it so no doubt we will get a view from there.

Take issue with anything I have said, but please don't accuse me of racism. That leaves a very nasty taste.

Sorry that last comment was to soontobe not to petallus

Expressing the view that something is wrong does not mean that other things are not also wrong petallus. The one does not follow from the other, nor negate the other. More than one thing can be wrong!

I condemn this waste of food in Nepal; and also the cruel practices that you are telling us take place in Europe.

www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2014/10/joanna-lumley-nepal-say-no-to-mass-animal-sacrifice/

Judge for yourselves. Ignore the fact that Joanna Lumley is involved and concentrate on the message from Suraya Upadhaya from the Nepalese Hindu Forum in the UK. Or is he also racist? Is the organisation CWF racist as well?

I have nothing else to say until we hear from GNHQ.

Except thank you Mishap and others for defending this as a legitimate thread, whatever the different views might be.

And thank you GNHQ for your response, which is that this is a reasonable thread and you see no reason to delete it or any comments.

I hope the thread will die a peaceful death.

I have been reading to find out if the meat is eaten, and apparently it is. The hides are also sold and used.
Another interesting fact I found is that only Denmark and Holland in Europe have banned ritualistic slaughter.

Good to hear that the meat is eaten and the hide used. Thank you for finding that out.

Also thanks to GNHQ for your decision.

18 million turkeys slaughtered in the UK every year, 10 million for the Christmas market.

It is up to gransnet what they deem acceptable, and what they deem not.

I do not feel remotely comfortable in contributing to this particular thread any further.

Slaughtering turkeys and other animals for meat under humane conditions is what goes on all round the world all year. Unless we are vegetarians then we have to accept that.

The world is a cruel place - you only have to watch any wildlife programme to see that it is all about eat or be eaten - but we have moved on in that most civilized nations have rules about how animals are raised for meat and how they are slaughtered. We may not agree with all those rules and feel things could still be done better, but at least we are moving in the direction of concern for animal welfare and there are legal safeguards and sanctions.

We are carnivores by nature - you only have to look at our teeth. It was not our idea - it is just how the world is.

Having said that, I eat only a little meat and then only poultry and fish in the main. I think it is an expensive and planet-destroying way of obtaining protein.

Thank you for starting this thread Nightowl and raiding awareness of this senseless cruelty. I have signed the petition and shared with friends on Facebook.

I agree; I come onto gransnet to find out about things and I'm grateful that this has been pointed out to me.

Am inclined to agree with petallus's posts on this subject.Aside from the ethics of killing animals [and not eating them] the end result for the animals is the same as the thousands of animals killed elsewhere for meat.
Not having looked at the link, I don't know if the animals are dogs/cats/goats or what. Is the problem ethics, or simply that animals are killed?

Again [not having seen the link, ]is it the way in which they are killed?

Ah, just now I have read all of the postings, and it seems that the animals are not wasted at all, both meat and hide is used.

rosesarered the issue for me is the fact of huge numbers of animals being hacked to death by men wielding huge swords (which in theory could be a very quick death but in reality means several strokes often being needed to fell a large and untethered animal like a buffalo), while all the other animals witness this over an extended period. The sights, sounds and smells of terrified animals and blood spattered swordsmen are said to be overwhelming with 'wide eyed children' looking on. And whilst I welcome the fact that the meat and hides are used I have read that the numbers are simply too great for all of them to be used before the heat makes them useless. The authorities have raised the fear of anthrax from so many carcasses lying in the open.

People may think that as the animals are going to die anyway, the method of their death doesn't really matter. I've never been able to see any merit in that argument, otherwise why do we have animal welfare laws in the first place? Why do some of us bother protesting against animals being shipped from the UK across Europe and beyond to die in conditions that would not be permitted in the UK? Why do we oppose bullfighting? The bulls feed the poor and provide some entertainment so why does it matter that they are tortured in the bullring before their death? I can't be so casual about animal suffering, wherever it takes place. And I agree that we get many things wrong in the UK and I oppose them as well.

The BBC website says that the bodies are 'buried in a pit'. Who knows?

Right, nightowl I see why this is causing revulsion. It's all in the way that animals are killed, and this scene is pretty nasty all round.The method of death for all animals matters [more than death itself] and that goes for humans too.

Although I couldn't bring myself to look at the link, I've read all of the thread and signed the petition.
We are carnivores, and our teeth are designed for us to be as such. It's our own choice whether we remain carnivores or become vegetarian. In this country animals are bred for food and are (hopefully) slaughtered in accordance with our laws.
Senseless cruelty indeed.....

Criticising religious or cultural practices is not the same as racism. People chose their religious beliefs or simply accept the cultural norm and a religious group does not necessarily comprise people of the same race. Race, on the other hand, is an accident of birth. However, it is a vague and non-scientific concept and has become almost completely meaningless by the twenty-first century given the endless migrations of groups of people over the millennia. That said, racism does still exist. Tackling this foul prejudice is not helped by conflating Hinduism, Islam or any other religion with race.

What about the quality of life of the animal before death?

Battery farming is allowed in this country.

I read the other day that we buy rabbit meat produced elsewhere in the EU. Rabbits are piled into cages, one on top of the other, in hugely overcrowded conditions (I saw a picture) Up to fifty per cent die before they are killed for food.

As for the method of death, I have read accounts of the terror of animals as they wait to be slaughtered in our abattoirs.