Hostage Siege in Sydney

Two people, a thirty four and thirty eight year old are dead. I really didn't expect people would be killed, I don't know why. Australia usually is safe, we don't know how lucky we are. My daughter was only there in November with her drama students visiting the television station which is just across the road.

It makes me feel sadder for those people who live in countries where this is the norm. It must be horrific.

Very sad news.

This makes me so

How dare these raving quasi religious lunatics take away innocent lives. Damn them to hell.

Anya Lunatic may be the right word. The gunman was a self-styled cleric but his so-called religious activities had little connection with Islam. He was also on bail facing more than 40 sexual assault charges.

I'm talking the lunatic fringes of Islamic extremism such as I.S. and like minded sects and individuals. Those who murder others in the name of Islam. Not just this pond scum.

At the moment it is not known how these two people died. It could have been in crossfire.

I don't mean to just score points but even if they were killed in crossfire, they wouldn't have been if it hadn't been for the gunman holding them hostage in the first place. I've got no patience with these fanatics and having read about the sexual assault charges I find myself thinking 'how typical, another screwed up religious bigot preaching one thing and doing another'. Religion, the bane of the human race!

What do you think about this article from the Guardian annie?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2014/dec/12/evangelical-giftwrapping-islamophobia-marches-on

I agree with Giles Fraser, it's not just onesided, fanaticism.

This is so sad. I really didn't expect something like this to happen in Australia.

DD2 lives in Brisbane and occasionally goes to Sydney on business. I'm relieved she was nowhere near this.

Oz has supplied troops to Iraq, possibly for training rather than combat, but I am not sure. Canada has done the same. Both have recently suffered terrorist attacks. Pundits and politicians on the television have been adamant that there is no cause and effect.

Questions are being asked why the gunman, who was an accessory in the murder of his ex wife was currently on bail. He has a violent record and has also sexually abused women who went to him because he was an advisor. His current partner was charged with murdering his ex wife last year and she is on bail too. Why these two were allowed bail.

Also the manager of the cafe is said to have tried to disarm the gunman when he was falling asleep and the gun went off and he was killed. The 38 year old mother of three (one is only four) was apparently trying trying to protect her friend who is pregnant. Not sure how they and others were shot. It seemed the police went in firing when they heard gunshots. It would be awful to think of the hostages getting shot or killed in crossfire. I hope not, we won't know everything I guess until later.

I really could cry for those families who have lost loved ones especially the three children, just before Christmas.

Durhamjen, ugh to all of the fundamentalist religious bigots is my response to your link. Shame we can't ship them off to some uninhabited planet where they can war and blow themselves up to their heart's content!

A friend who is currently visiting from Australia has flagged up the I'LL RIDE WITH YOU campaign. Hundreds of Australian citizens are offering to accompany anyone who's afraid to use public transport. Many ordinary Muslim citizens are taking up these offers and are expressing their gratitude for such understanding and kindness.
What a wonderful way to show the lunatic fringe that decent people will not bow to such atrocities and to make it clear that fanatics form a tiny minority in a civilised society.

mcem how wonderful. Thank you for telling us about that. As the outcome was not what we must all have been hoping for it brings a little light back in.

Actions like this helps restore faith in humanity mcem

Glad it's over, but the thought of those three young children losing their Mummy is dreadful. Poor little mites.

Also sad that the cafe manager died so courageously. The Christmas season will never be the same again for their families.

God Bless them all

So once again a veil of sadness drapes itself over us all, but our thoughts are very much with the families and friends of those affected by this grim event. There is so much evil about. If only it were not so. I am not particularly religious but I shall light a small candle of hope for better times in 2015.

That's a lovely idea papaoscar. I'll do the same. It was said at the time of the new millenium 'all the gates to heaven and hell are open at this time' and it does seem as if a terrible evil has entered our world. A candle is a beacon of hope, no matter how small.

Pakistan is beyond belief also.

What a world.

What a world indeed POGS, but just how much did we set it up to be like this, marching round the globe, seizing countries, diminishing their populations culture, inflicting our own religion on them. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap"

While on one level I agree with what you've said Gracesgran, on another I find myself arguing back and saying that actually we in the 'West' have brought a lot of good things to the world and continue to do so.

I know immediately now the response is a political, conspiracy thread - "they/we only wanted oil, minerals, land, religious converts". Yes, to some extent that's true but contact between peoples going back millennia has always been about expansion, looking for advantage and ending up with trade bringing mutual advantage. Sometimes it has been about annihilation and violence, that seems to be the way with so many humans.

I can't write off the benefits of education, healthcare and infrastructure which have improved the lives of many thousands around the world. It is a better deal than that brought by these fundamentalists who want to destroy Western civilisation and return us to the Middle Ages.

I cannot forgive or reason with people who think it is ok to indiscriminately kill children, maim adults, remove education from children, mutilate girls' genitals giving them a lifetime of pain, treat women as lesser beings, deny medical treatment, allow polio to return to Aghanistan and so on. And I personally cannot abide by this 'it's their culture' stance because if that's the case then it is saying that culture is static and that we should still have bull baiting, hanging, drawing and quartering, enforced marriage for women, slavery, children working in factories from an early age, living in an autocracy and so on.

The way forward has to be working peacefully together for change bringing education, healthcare and better living conditions to the whole world. I think in the face of climate change, we're probably all in for Armageddon at some point.

Very well said, anniezzz09, peace and education surely is the answer, but at the point of a very large and powerful stick, surely, otherwise humanity will be overwhelmed by even more horror and barbarism.

Just why are so many atrocities done in the name of religion? I've always struggled to understand.

Yes papaoscar, I find myself despairing at the depths these people are sinking to and the justifications that other people come out with. It's a long time now since 1939, I wasn't alive then, but I think we are facing the same situation of a massive moral dilemma, do you let deluded killers run riot or do you say we've got to stand up to them?

p.s. love your candle idea, I'm not religious either but I'll happily do that and hope some good thoughts will help someone somewhere.