This is so terribly sad.

gracesgran I am sorry for your personal tragedy but I was just trying to say that many people may also have personal experience but prefer not to share it on an open forum.

People's experiences of mental illness are different and in this particular case a lot more is emerging and we don't yet have a full picture.

Thanks, harri. I hadn't seen that information.

Well, I put it on twice this morning, thatbags

gracesgran I think you may have misread my post. When I said that not everyone wants personal experience and tragedy out there on the internet I meant, of course, posting their own experiences. If you wish to share yours that is your decision and very brave of you and your experience may well help others. I apologise if what I said was not clear.

I did not expect such cruelty on this forum. I am not playing any blackmail card and when I stop crying I shall, no doubt, see the comments for what they are - that is not meant in a derogatory way, I just need to understand why someone would be so deliberately hurtful. I just don't know anyone who would be so unkind.

This will be my last post on the forum. I was trying to shine a bit of light on the general thinking about depression and getting attacked is the last thing I expected. I suppose this is why people stay off forums like this.

Before I sign off I will say to jinglebellfrocks that the problem arises not from being someone who is "emotionally weak and have extreme difficulty dealing with life" my husband could not in anyway be described as that, but from what we would probably see as an irrational view of life that they come to believe is rational. That's the point; clinical depression can give people who are severely affected an irrational mind set.

Thank you to all those who have expanded my knowledge and views and good luck to Gransnet.

I'm shocked that Gracesgran has told a very painful personal story and no one has even commented on it (except for Anya) let alone expressed any sympathy. It's not a competition to see who has had the most awful experiences and whether or not to share those on an open forum, but when someone tells us something like this, can we not at least show some kindness. We talk about the co-pilot lacking humanity, where on earth is our humanity to a fellow gransnetter and human being?

I agree with anno

Several crossed posts

Having kept away from this post, being veiwed as ' too tender hearted' apparently, I'm shocked too.

Little compassion shown to fellow GNs, well written anno and nightowl

There are many very courageous posters on GN, it cannot be easy to relive nightmarish experiences on here and they deserve respect and empathy.

I think my first post was ambiguous for which I have apologised - I thought it was clear but perhaps not. I would not want to be hurtful to someone.

loopylou. There is a lot of respect and empathy on gransnet. You have just singled out this thread. If you look at all the threads going on at the moment there are many accounts of depression/support from others/empathy etc.

That shouldn't mean that we can't indulge in a little plain speaking when constantly reminded that we're not showing enough support because it's just not true.

And this thread shouldn't be about members' personal experiences with depression. There's another thread for that.

I am not one bit surprised that people leave this forum. In the time I have been a member many names have disappeared. A little tolerance and understanding of other's problems and emotional state is needed.

I also think that if people have family who are aircrew or who fly regularly themselves, they are going to look at this from a slightly different perspective - we are putting our lives in the hands of one or two people and it is truly frightening to think that anything but the most stringent medical examinations would be applied.
DC's son is a pilot and the thought of any co-pilot he may work with suffering from any kind of mental illness makes me very anxious indeed.

Gracesgran - for you . Thank you for shedding some light on the sort of mindset that can occur in certain forms of depression. That was a very useful contribution to help us understand.

I, like bags, feel sorry for everyone in this situation: all those who died, all the families, the co-pilot's family, those who in retrospect have to carry the guilt of perhaps not reporting concerns they might have had about this young man, those who are searching for body parts - so hard for them all.

Let us hope that some positive change is initiated to prevent a recurrence.

Gracesgran - your sad story reminded me of another parallel - the quite common occurrence of a family member, usually the father, killing all the people in their family, then killing themselves.
I knew a family like that, the father had lost his job and couldn't support his family, all of whom he loved.

I think my post was rather harsh on you Gracesgran but sometimes if someone touches a nerve we can react unthinkingly. I too have had to protect my family from someone with a mental illness. Luckily (?) they turned their attention inwards rather than outwards at the very end.

Please accept apologies for any hurt.

I think people are posting their personal experiences on here merlot not to gain sympathy but to say ' we have a general idea of how depression looks but sometimes it can look very different'. It's all about trying to gain some understanding of why this co-pilot acted as he did. Of course it's all supposition and we will never know the full truth about his state of mind, but surely any attempts to understand mental disorder better are useful?

I still think that when someone does share a personal story we should be able to find the time and compassion to acknowledge it, whichever thread it's on.

Bags re your earlier post Has anyone else wondered if it was a spur of the moment decision to take the plane down? The captain had just popped out to the loo and the plane was in an 'ideal' position for what happened next. You can't plan for the loo visits of captains.

Yes, it could well be that he had been planning for such an opportunity for some time and this was the first time all obstacles were removed, in himself as well as externally. Still not necessarily a rational act, but one borne out of increasing desperation about what he believed he was losing.

Gracegran I'd be sorry to see you leave Gransnet because of a tiny minority of unempathic posts, but can understand how hurt you might be feeling. The majority on here are caring and kind. I do hope you'll stay

I was talking about the bloody pilot for God's sake!

As usual a trial has bern carried out and verdict given by the press, just as happened with poor Mr Jeffries . an ex girl friend gives / sells a story , claims he said he wanted to do something he would be remembered for, this now means I will become a mass murderer , couldn't mean anything else

And the press are guilty of tampering with the flight recorder?

And yes, he is a mass murderer.

Mr. Jeffries might not have been found innocent if he'd killed himself.

Good point, Anniebach. The cruel comments made about Jeffries because he was a bit different were off the wall, but seized on by the tabloids.

I don't think Mr. Jeffries has anything to do with this to be honest.

And some posters have been trying to explain that in their personal experience some cases mental illness can cause the sufferer to have a very skewed view of what will make things right because it is possible that the pilot may have been in that situation.

But nobody knows but everyone is speculating and sometimes being very vitriolic & unkind based on uninformed thinking. By doing so they cause unnecessary upset to other posters.

FACT ALERT: It was not the black box flight recorder that all this is based on.