I might vote Tory but that doesn't make me a bad person

Sorry, Day6, you did write that Thatcher helped to create left of centre middle ground?
Are you feeling ill?

Perhaps Day6 meant that by making voting Conservative unpalatable to many in the centre Thatcher helped create a left of centre middle ground. It's certainly arguable, and need not be so harshly dismissed.

Ooh 'eck loopy. I was still in bed.

I think you're right, grumppa.

Same here, grumppa TB was waiting with open arms.

Can't get my head round that one! 'ang on. I'll have a think.

No! I don't get it. I could understand a right of centre ground (when she made conservatism unpalatable) but not a left of.

So what did Major do in the middle?

jingl, she was a symbol of the right. The public took against her eventually and many wanted a more left-wing government, hence the shift.

Left but not tooooo left

durhamjen, yes I did.

Thatcher may have 'turned' many to the left/Labour after her time in office....but they probably described themselves then being 'slightly' left of centre. Blair appealed to 'moderates' rather than hard-bitten socialists. (I always described him as a Tory wearing a red tie.)

A 'Red' Ed may have tried to redress the balance but could have frightened off the moderates. Who knows? Merely idle speculation on my part.

Thank you grumppa! You understood and said it for me

I've got it! I concentrated really hard.

It's getting late...

Too much thinking isn't good for me at this time of night.

Just wanted to add that my three young adults are saddled with student loans to repay, and none could afford to get on the property ladder when the Labour party governed the country. The price of property and the amount needed for a deposit to secure a mortgage was beyond them.

In 2010 the Conservatives formed a government. Only five years ago. Please let's not forget the hardship young people no face started LONG before Cameron's time in office.

I also remember that it was Blair's government which introduced tuition fees.

"In 1997, a report by Sir Ron Dearing recommended that students should contribute to the costs of university education. The Labour government under Tony Blair passed the Teaching and Higher Education Act 1998 which introduced tuition fees of £1,000 to start in the 1998/9 academic year.[2] In addition, maintenance grants were replaced with repayable student loans for all but the poorest students." Wiki.

Thatcher may have introduced privatisation in the NHS but the Labour Government in office continued the practice.

Having just re-read the posts on this topic I have perhaps clarified why I have not been inspired by the most recent of Labour governments.

Like many I am quite disillusioned by politics and politicians.....of all political persuasions. I fell completely out of love with the Labour Party though. This from a woman who, in the '70s participated in more sit-ins/protest marches as a student wanting to change the world, than any do today.

Do these proposals from Ed Miliband/the Labour Party constitute being "far left" policies?

protecting families from being exploited by bad landlords

stopping people who reside permanently in the UK from claiming non-dom status and having the benefit of a preferential tax system

stopping the sell off and fragmentation of the NHS

preventing the use of zero hours contracts for people working regular hours who under these contracts have virtually no employment rights

enforcing minimum wage laws to prevent employees from being exploited

forcing energy companies to reduce prices charged to customers when wholesale prices fall

They seem perfectly reasonable - and much needed - policies to me. They would have benefitted the vast majority of Britons, whereas many of the Conservative policies will benefit only a small number of people.

I too am disgusted at the way some people in the party have turned on Ed Miliband. And it's funny how Alan Sugar didn't disassociate himself from the Labour Party before they lost. He seems to have been hedging his bets and has now decided that he'll fare better if he cosies up to the "winning team", and no doubt he will.

Blair and Mandelson have more in common with the Conservative Party since their main focus now appears to be the acquisition of money, power and friends in high places.

Don't think much to brother David putting the boot in either.

Oh dear I've only just come back to this thread. I agree with GT (again) that Alan Sugar is not my idea of a senior Labour politician, (ex) Lord or not. I have to agree with Eloethan that so called 'Red Ed's' policies don't seem at all extreme to me. And to my mind, Tory-lite Tony Blair tried to please the moderates so much that he forgot that Labour was in fact a socialist party. Didn't Margaret Thatcher describe TB as her greatest achievement?

I do wish these people like TB, Mandelson, Sugar etc would keep their mouths shut and allow the party to move forward and away from the nightmare of the TB years.

No I suppose it was only a matter of time before David came back for his revenge though dj, wasn't it? Brotherly rivalry as well as ideological difference there.

Also agree with Eleothan - it all seems to have been a smear campaign to discredit him. Perhaps because he's the rather gentle type who won't retaliate.
I was active in local politics back in the 60s and 70s and I can tell you what the real Reds were like - we had some among our members. Real firebrands
Good old days?

He who occasionally goes by the name of Shapps is a goner.

I don't blame David.
Revenge is a dish best served cold so they say (although I am not vengeful myself and am not a particular fan of DM).

I might vote Tory but that doesn't make me a bad person.

It doesn't make you a good person either. In fact, it doesn't make you anything other than a Tory supporter.

Why is David Millibands interview seen as revenge ? He spoke as a labour party member so every right to give his opinions on the party. It was the same when the new leader was elected, Ed stabbed David in the back, he did not. Two labour MP's who are brothers had different views on which way the party should go, David wanted to continue in Blairs footprints but Ed didn't so both stood for the leadership