The EU and how it works

Rest of World!!

I was listening to a recording of Nigel Farage and Jeremy Hunt the others didn't say anything much on Question TIme and it was brilliant because of what I have learnt over the past couple of days I was able to say wrong! wrong wrong. I new the truth and didn't need the spin sooooo good

Well Brian May did say that the British voters needed the truth about the EU before they vote and not spin --he just needs to talk to the grans - we know or at least on the way to knowing.

OK now to Benefits.

Bear in mind that as we already know the immigrant is less unlikely to claim than likely but these are the rules if she needs to claim

To get help you must prove residency and be registered as a worker.
The benefits you can claim are -
Pension credit
Income support-Income base JSA - you have to prove residency of 3 months
Housing benefit/rate relief - stopped since 01/04/14
Disabilty Living Allowance
Attendance allowance
Carers allowance
income related employment and support allowance
tax credits

This also holds good for UK citzs working or not in the EU.

The next thing I want to look at is something I am particularly interested in and that is the Democracy deficit and sovereignty.

Yes, whitewave, that's the bit that people forget, that UK citizens have the same rights when they go to other EU countries to find work.

Quite like to see Brian May as an MP.

Who's likely to forget that?

Actually by now I expect most of you have totally lost interest but if there are any grans out there still with me I wondered if there is anything you would particularly like me to look at? I am going to look at in the next few days.
The democratic gap
sovereignty
corrective mechanism
The eurozone
Greater political integration
What Mr Cameron is hoping to achieve
Arguments for and against.

They all sound very interesting to me.
You're doing a good job. Carry on.

I certainly hadn't lost interest, whitewave, and am grateful for the information you've provided.

I've also been impressed by your skilfull deflection of attempts to sidetrack you into chatty side issues!

Good - oh - I will keep going then - busy today so may not post until this evening - I think DH is of the opinion that I spending too much time on the computer - but he wouldn't dare say!!! Must say I m getting a bit obsessed though - dreamed about it last night now that is sad.

I haven't lost interest! I am all a-gog.

I know you are jing I think as I type the posts "Bet jing can't wait"!

I haven't got time atm to go into this but I will be interested later on, so I must remember the title of the thread otherwise I will never find it again.

I think somehow we should keep this thread readily available for future reference. I am definitely going to set some time aside to study it, and try to remember it.

Am I right in thinking that when migrants go from the UK to Europe, they are largely going to jobs lined up.
But when migrants come here, some of them havent got jobs lined up?
Are there EU figures for that at all?

If you look on www.fullfact.org under immigration, you might find your answers, soon, to that and many more questions.

OK did you find your answer soon?

Next is the so called DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT - which is a mega subject so I am only going to outline some of the issues but sufficient for us to understand the potential problem. Most of my information has come from the House of Commons Library report dated Apl 2014

This is the idea that the governance of the EU in some ways lacks democratic legitimacy.
So - we know that in the EU there are two sources of democratic legitimacy - the European Parliament with directly elected MEPS , and the Councils representing the peoples of individual states. However the European Commission the legislative body, has no directly elected representatives. Commissioners are as we already know delegated by each member state.
This is the principal democratic illegitimacy of the EU.

This has been recognised by the EU and over time a number of constitutional changes in various Treaties have been introduced to increase perceived democratic legitimacy.
However undoubtedly the low turnout at the EU elections can certainly be cited as weakening the democratic legitimacy of the European Parliament, indeed some argue that the low turnout reflects the perceived lack of legitimacy by the voters.

Listed below are the aspects of perceived democratic deficit
1 Commission unelected
2 European Parliament is weak compared to the Councils and Commission.
3 European Parliament not really "European" election and turnout is low
4.EU is too distant from the voters
5 EU adopts policies not supported by a majority of EU citizens
6 Court of Justice makes the law rather than interpreting it
7 Lack of Transparency in the Commission
8 EU Law had primacy over national law and constitutions.

So what is to be done?

There is talk of another EU Treaty reform.
Some say the only way to make the EU democratic is to have further union, creating a United States of Europe with the Commission as government and 2 chambers i.e European Parliament and the Senate of Member States. Member States like Germany would argue for this.

For others including the UK, the way forward is to allow member states to loosen the EU framework in more policy areas and thereby preserve national sovereignty. National parliaments have legitimacy at national level, this needs to be transferred to the EU stage.
The H. o C. European Scrutiny Committee suggest the re-establishment of a national veto of EU proposals.
What can be done about falling voter support. If the EU has legitimacy, it is failing to attract trust or interest.
Undoubtedly a number of EU member states are actively considering reform. This where we are with our current government and David Cameron is hoping to be able to persuade the EU and later the UK electorate of the case.

SOME FACTS AND FIGURES

This one comes with a health warning as they are only estimates (the best I could find)

1.8m Brits live in another EU country - which includes
1m in Spain largely retired ( can hear the Spanish moaning about the pressure on their health and social services - especially as they are more in the do-da than we are)
400K in other EU countries and retired
The rest all working

2.34m EU citz. live and work in UK.

So in a way we gain as most of our UK citz are retired and so contribute very little to the country in which they live and are probably a negative, whereas the EU citz living in the UK are contributing taxes, skills and productivity we know to be a positive .

The next lot of figures come from HMRC

For the month of April 2015
Imported between 15 - 20bn from the EU
Exported between 10 - 15bn

The largest trade deficit is with France
Largest positive gap is with Germany and Belgium

With regard to services - these are a significant and represent a substantial level of exports and have grown year on year.

Overall the EU is the dominant market by far with 50% of both imports and exports of our total overseas trade.

This is aided by the free movement (no tarifffs, duty etc) of goods and services and of course people as business will see them as units just as they see commodities.

Interestingly, EU citizens living in this country do not have the right to vote in the referendum, yet. It is still being discussed.

I have just downloaded 'Europe : In or Out. Everything you Need to Know by David Charter. It's 99p on Kindle. I am hoping it will put forward the pros and cons in a suitably easy to understand manner for the likes of me!

It is a question that has been bugging me for a couple of days now so thought I would answer it quickly before I move on

WHY DID THE UK JOIN THE EU IN THE FIRST PLACE

Briefly - in the 1950's the UK's per capita GDP was 1/2 larger than all the other 6 EU member states. But by the 1970's it was 10% below and declining, and we were looking at a relatively large block of nations with trade tariffs etc imposed on all countries outside the block. After we joined the EU or Common Market as it was then our declined stopped and indeed we are now one of the wealthier member states.

I've just found this thread - thank you so much whitewave. I've read it through quickly, after a busy day and can't say I've retained all the relevant information. Like a number of others who have posted thanks to you, I plan to read it again, more slowly and try to retain the information. It's great to have the facts - complicated and slightly overwhelming as they are

MONETARY AND POLITICAL INTEGRATION

Taken and reworded from a report produced by the IMF

Eurozone is the monetary union of the EU of 19 of the member states. Other states (except UK and Denmark) will be obliged to join once they reach the criteria to do so. So far no state has left and there is no provisions to do so or to be expelled. Monetary policy is as we know the responsibility of the ECB. As we are also aware the eurozone has been for some time in crises especially since the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

In order to create greater stability the IMF see the best way forward is towards greater integration both monetary and politically. However this would not sit well with the UK and maybe others.

For a number of years there has been an argument for an 2 speed Europe. This means that the 19 should accelerate towards greater political union whilst the remaining 9 including the UK would have no plans for integration but who wish to play a full and willing part in the EU project.

iam64 Take it in chunks just as I have written it easier to assimilate then.