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EU citizens living in UK.

(83 Posts)
durhamjen Sun 17-May-15 12:39:21

Should EU citizens living in the UK have the right to vote in the EU referendum?

Despite paying tax, council tax and NI, and having the right to vote in local elections, many did not have the right to vote in the general election. Even those with indefinite leave to remain did not have that right.

I think they should have the right to vote in the EU referendum. Brits living abroad can vote. Why not EU citizens living here?

durhamjen Sun 17-May-15 19:29:39

Such as, roseq? Which other countries? What if you are on minimum wage after five years, and do not have enough money to feed your children, let alone pay to obtain citizenship?

Why shouldn't the right to residency give the right to vote?

rosequartz Sun 17-May-15 19:00:53

I agree with Iam64

The cost of obtaining citizenship seems quite reasonable to me compared to some other countries.

durhamjen Sun 17-May-15 18:20:12

I would have hoped we would have moved on from 1975, Maggie. So many more people travel around the EU. We are encouraged to do so, as it is easy. However, when it comes to voting, that's different.
There are people here who have the right to vote who have taken nondom status because of where their fathers were born, so do not pay tax.

Maggiemaybe Sun 17-May-15 18:06:50

DH and I weren't allowed to vote in the 1975 EEC referendum, as we were living and working in Germany. I'd only been out there 2 months at the time. I felt disgruntled and disenfranchised, but it would have made no difference to the vote, since one of us then was a yes, one a no. grin

It seems only fair to me that all UK citizens should have a say.

durhamjen Sun 17-May-15 18:04:19

To get British citizenship also requires a level of finance. £1600, I think it is now, something which many people do not have to spare.
The form to fill in is 127 pages long. They also have to pass a ridiculous test to which many of us would not know the answers.
Someone who has lived here for over 20 years is not suddenly going to up sticks and leave with or without family.

Iam64 Sun 17-May-15 17:57:38

I believe only those with British citizenship should be able to vote in an EU referendum, or any local or general election. It doesn't matter how long you have lived here, you must be a citizen.

Mamie Sun 17-May-15 17:51:09

In Europe we can vote in UK GE for 15 years, in our last constituency before leaving the UK. Nothing to do with property ownership. In France we can vote in local (municipal) elections and European elections.
In order to vote in regional and presidential elections, we would need to take French citizenship.
As a member of the local council in France, I have regularly been an official at elections in which I have no vote.
The referendum will almost certainly be a postal vote.

rosequartz Sun 17-May-15 17:32:05

Brits living abroad can vote

I'm not sure if you mean British people living in EU countries can vote in that country's elections, or if you mean British people living elsewhere in the world can vote in that country's elections. Or that British people living in EU countries can vote in the UK elections?

Certainly you cannot vote in Australian elections even if you are a permanent resident (unless special circumstances apply eg residency pre 1984). You have to have obtained citizenship to be able to vote.

Bez Sun 17-May-15 17:29:29

I doubt that there would be any voting booths anywhere but UK - postal votes are the system for UK citizens living in EU.

MargaretX Sun 17-May-15 17:26:43

correction - opinion

MargaretX Sun 17-May-15 17:25:30

I always thought that the right to vote in the UK while living abroad depended on whether you had a UK address. rented or owned property.
In Germany we often witness the hoards of Italians and Turks who HAVE to vote in their country's elections, Germany has to provide voting booths for them (human rights?)
I'll wait until voting booths have been got ready for the thousands of Brits living in the EU!
It is important that we who live abroad have a say in this matter. We actually know what being in the EU is like and don't have to depend on the media or the gutter press to form our opions.

janeainsworth Sun 17-May-15 17:23:50

I don't think EU citizens, or anyone else for that matter, living in the UK should vote in the referendum unless they have actually acquired UK citizenship.
That would demonstrate a level of commitment to the UK that merely living here doesn't.

Of course the Scottish referendum set a precedent which rather muddied the waters - ie people with no Scots heritage living in Scotland could vote, whereas Scots living in England couldn't.
Not to mention the millions of people in the rest of the UK whose lives would have been affected had the vote gone the other way.
#canofworms

Ana Sun 17-May-15 17:10:31

It seems that which electoral register to use hasn't been decided yet.

Bez Sun 17-May-15 16:43:26

Agreements about many things between countries in the EU tend to be reciprocal. We can register to vote in local elections here but not General Elections etc unless we have taken French citizenship. Maybe that applies in UK too.

durhamjen Sun 17-May-15 16:36:11

What about an EU citizen, who has indefinite leave to remain, who has children in school here and has been paying tax, NI and council tax in UK for over 20 years?

Mamie Sun 17-May-15 15:27:17

Well I don't think you can bar people from voting just because they might want to stay in!
The point I was making is that our direct interest in education might be no more or no less that of someone living in the UK. Not everyone is affected equally by all areas of government policy.
Financial decisions however, do affect us directly and the UK remains our competent state.
And Bez is right, we will have a vote in the EU referendum.

Bez Sun 17-May-15 15:07:33

Well I honestly think we CAN argue the point and obviously the powers that be also think that too or we would not have it!
I would say with regard to EU nationals living in UK and having a referendum vote that should possibly depend on how long they have lived in UK etc. if it is many years and they have married a UK citizen and have a home and family in UK then they should have the right.

GrannyTwice Sun 17-May-15 14:57:57

Ana's right - we've gone off piste. I honestly don't think you can argue for having a vote because of your grandchildren or because of what you used to do here. Of course you care but you made a decision to leave

Ana Sun 17-May-15 14:54:05

But the OP was asking whether citizens from other EU countries living in the UK should be able to vote in the EU referendum.

I don't think they should, because they would obviously be biased and would presumably all vote to stay in.

Mamie Sun 17-May-15 14:52:35

The financial state of the UK still affects us directly though GT. The NHS, not so much, but I would think education still affects us in exactly the same way as it does those on here who are in the UK; the education of our grandchildren. (And as someone who spent all their working life in state education, I certainly feel very strongly indeed about current education policy).

Bez Sun 17-May-15 14:51:18

Why should we NOT have say as to who we are happy to have in power to spend our taxes? We are not taking any top up benefits etc only receiving pensions on what we have paid in over a long period - why should we have less right to vote than those who have never contributed at all to the economy and only benefitted? We also have family in UK and return for visits spending a lot of money.

GrannyTwice Sun 17-May-15 14:43:06

X posts - I would also add that a vote is not just about tax rates but about how that money is spent and if you are not living here( on a long term basis) then why should you have any say in eg the shape and structure of NhS or Education. For the EU referendum, then I think any UK citizen living in Europe should be able to vote - still thinking about whether the 15 year rule should apply

GrannyTwice Sun 17-May-15 14:38:13

I don't think that paying tax on your pensions is a good enough reason to be able to vote

Mamie Sun 17-May-15 14:38:00

We can vote in the UK GE for up to 15 years. There is some talk that the current government will abolish the 15 year rule so we can continue voting in the UK after that. Certainly French nationals have the right to vote in French elections for ever and I think that is the case in other countries. There were many problems with postal votes in this GE so we would come to the UK to vote in the referendum, the outcome of which is of huge importance to us as EU residents.
It would be quite wrong, imo, to deprive the many British citizens living and working in Europe under the current EU arrangements, of the right to have a say in their future.
(I am still paying a significant amount of tax in the UK on my occupational pension and also think that "no taxation without representation" is a reasonable position to hold).

Bez Sun 17-May-15 14:31:57

Brits living in EU have oting rights in UK for 15 years as long as they are registered - however local offices often sed papers out too late to get them returned in time. UK citizens living in France are able to vote in local commune elections but not Naional ones. ,any f us still pay tax in UK too as it is deducted at source.