Terror attacks in France and Tunisia/now

The French government are calling it Daesh

Apparently DC prefers ISIL.

Not sure if it matters at this point. We (including the muslim population) all know who they are now.

I don't disagree with you JA, I think the figures you have given re: the IRA are interesting, and not unsurprising in retrospect.

I can also see that for some young Muslims living here is akin to being caught between a rock and hard place. Although there are others of 2nd and 3rd generation under going a metamorphosis of their own volition back to a hard line version of Islam, puzzling their own parents and grandparents who give the impression that they don't share those views at all. I wonder just how much influence radical extremists who are given a platform at universities such as the one who conspired to blow up the aforementioned Ministry of Sound have on their audience. Allegedly there are 100 extremists a year who lecture at universities and espouse rhetoric such as "we as Muslims reject the idea of freedom of speech and even the idea of freedom". I can't remember now but were the IRA's spokespeople allowed into universities and other public places to incite violence and further their cause. I'm not forgetting of course we have to take on line grooming out of the argument during the times they were operating.

Gerry Adams addressed the Oxford Union on 5th March 1987.

bufvc.ac.uk/tvandradio/lbc/index.php/segment/0002000136001

Thank you for the link annodomini, can't always remember the finer detail, I know we weren't allowed to hear his actual voice for a long time.

Good last two posts from you TerriBull.If anyone here wants to do a thread about past Colonial history, or any past mistakes and atrocities, then why not start one? it all fogs the reasoning and debate about the killings in Tunisia and extremists in our midst.We face an awful threat both here and in other countries, and all this hand wringing about how Muslims here are between a rock and a hard place is ridiculous.The present generation along with their parents and even grandparents have been given a home here with full access to all that British citizens are entitled to, and most of them manage very well and are happy here and would certainly not trade it all in for living anywhere else.The moderate majority though, must make their feelings known in the mosque and not sit quietly listening to extremist hollerings from he pulpit.I feel that they could make a big difference by doing that.

I don't know if you are referring to my post or not Rosesared when you ridicule the 'handwringing about Muslims being between a rock an a hard place', but I would humbly suggest that having some empathy for the situation of others might go some way to reducing the hatred that is threatening our society from extremist groups of all kinds.

I find your observation
"The present generation along with their parents and even grandparents have been given a home here with full access to all that British citizens are entitled to"
quite patronising - the first generation weren't given anything - they made a home for themselves all those years ago, and the subsequent generations have exactly the same rights as you or me and certainly as my own children who were all born abroad.

I know it's a gloomy view, but I don't think that will ever happen .
The Muslim population in France is about 10%. After the Charlie Hebdo massacre some schools in our region questioned their pupils about it. Most Muslim pupils denied it had even happened. Or if it had happened, it was the Mossad, trying to implicate the Muslims.
This is what young people are being told by their parents, fearing the children will stray from their religious roots.

Who are we to have empathy for hmmmn?and yes, they were given a home here, not talking about the actual bricks and mortar naturally, but that this country actually ' gave them a home' and most of them have done well through hard work like any citizen here.never mind ' extremist groups of all kinds' ....... That is woolly reasoning, we are talking about Muslim extremists and the very real threat that they pose.I don't care if you find that patronising or not.

rosesarered, not all Muslims have been given homes here , there are British born Muslims, British citizens from many generations of British citizens who have converted to the Muslim faith . I despair that some claim - we have given homes to, very much a little englander stance .

And all extremists are a real threat , or are the 85 young Norwegians gunned down by a right wing extremist of no importance

I can only state my own case and what I feel is quite simply "fear". Fear that in spite of our security services best efforts we will have a Tunisia atrocity on British soil, possibly London. I know it could happen absolutely anywhere, but we are top of their hit list at present. I can't imagine how it must feel to have your child/wife/husband's corpse come back in body bag after waving them off on holiday when they were very much alive and yes I'd be like the female vicar who lost her daughter as a result of the bombings on the London underground, I wouldn't forgive either. All the marches for hope, peace will not change a committed terrorists intent to maim and destroy. As far as I'm concerned the linking of arms of European leaders after the Charlie Hebdo massacre was posturing, they showed what they would call solidarity but they hadn't lost anyone so it wasn't really their grief. That grief will be forever with the relatives of those killed. Incidentally I thought the cartoons were insensitive and crass and the publishers were foolish to insult Muslims in that way.

I also fear the spread of the caliphate and it's desire to expand their territory. I think what we have we should hold dear. Our society whilst not perfect is better than many places and it's taken us 1000 years to reach the democratic stage we are at now.

Do not call me a little Englander - my grandfather came to live in this country in 1919 heavily accented with a love of garlic and olive oil in a time of Brown Windsor Soup and boiled to b*****y cabbage and set up a business when foreigners were viewed with distrust by some. He was a Roman Catholic and people could be sniffy about that faith. My own father was dark and swarthy and didn't look English, he did tell me he was occasionally called a "wop" at school. I had a foreign mispronounced maiden name which I only off loaded when I married my first husband for another foreign name. Following family traditions my husband wasn't English either he came here as an articled clerk studying to be a chartered accountant. I know, possibly second hand, what it's like to be a foreigner in a strange country. I do know that both my grandfather and my ex husband wanted to be here because they thought it was better than what they left behind.

Atrocities by crazed right wing gunmen such as the one in Norway and the shooting in the church in Charleston are without a doubt as awful as any other. No one could have possibly have foreseen either of those massacres - but ISIS have made it clear they are cranking up their operations and we in the UK are in their sights.

Not all Muslims have been given homes here, some have, including the Emwazi family who produced the delightful Jihadi John lover of sharp knives. Perhaps that's who rosesarered had in mind.

Anniebach, of course there are plenty of Muslims born here, that goes without saying, since they are the children and grandchildren of Asian people who were given a home here. not a little Englander stance at all, from anything that I have posted, Or anyone else either come to that.
This thread was started about the killings in Tunisia, and since then the thread has wandered off down really too many byways.
There will always be killing sprees by lone gunmen with a grudge, but these killings are ISIS inspired done by Muslim extremists, and has TerriBull has said in her last post, anyone who lives/works/ visits regularly London has a real worry now, if you live in Wales then perhaps you can afford to be more relaxed in your views.most others cannot!

Rosesared Muslim extremists are not the only ones in Britain today.
There are active groups preaching anti-Semitism, and far right groups like the BNP and Britain First.
They may not pose the same physical threat to us as ISIL does, but they are infiltrating ideas of hate and undermining the fabric of our society even so.

rosesarered, there are British Muslims who are not second , third or tenth generation who have been given homes here, there are British converts to the faith, and sorry but I think to say of anyone we have given them a home here is a little England attitude. People come to this country, British people move abroad, have those who retire to Spain, France etc been given homes. Yes we have given shelter to many nationalities such as Jews during the war, many from other countries have come to live here and brought much to benefit us ,

I think you will find Anniebach the majority of retirees in Spain and France have bought their own homes. We hear often how those in Spain in particular, have been affected by the property crash reducing the value of their homes, sometimes precluding them from returning here because they no longer have the cash to buy here. Of course they will be using those countries public services but they will also be spending their pensions/savings and putting money in the economies over there.

So how is that any different for the Muslim community over here, Terribull?

TerriBull, my point is they have not been given homes, they have chosen to live in another country, this is why I think it wrong to say of people who come to live here - we have given them homes , I accept this will not be agreed with but it's how I feel about it

Hmmm. Isn't being found a council flat the same as being given a home? How many immigrants immediately take out a mortgage?

We have given them a safe place to live. It's just nitpicking to say we haven't actually 'given them homes'.

I have more in common with immigrants than I thought, I too have been given a home here

I didn't say it was different dj, I pointed out that people who go to live in Spain and France from here tend to purchase their properties, as indeed many Asian families do here.

I lived in another country for 5 years. They loved the British there. Why, because we tried to learn the language, we paid good money for their services, we spent a lot of money in their bars and cafés. And, we all had private medical insurance.
We took nothing out, we all gave.

Exactly right Ana,it is nit picking of the highest order to say we have not given them homes.I expect quite a few Asian people who came here did get council properties, but as I said earlier and others have chosen to ignore, it is not bricks and mortar I am talking about, but a safe haven after the riots in India against Muslims in 1947' and ever since then. they have 'chosen' to live in this country because we allow it as India was part of the Commonwealth.It is nothing like British going to Spain to live, and that is not relevant to this thread.In fact nothing you have just said Anniebach is relevant to this thread. nobody on here has said that immigrants have brought no benefits.
JaneAinsworth why do you keep going on about any groups who are anti-semitic or BNP, what has that got to do with anything? we are talking about Muslim extremists Who support ISIS , and British Muslims who may condone extremism in their midst. nobody here is saying, and I have checked all the posts,that there is no other form of extremism to take part in, but we are talking about this today because of the killings in Tunisia and of the very great threat that ISIS poses everywhere.

I thought part of the discussion was why young Muslims feel alienated , my mistake . So we stick to the deaths in Tunisia were an appalling act of violence and ISIS is a threat to this country , end of discussion

That's up to you, it's a free country, but expect others to disagree with your comments just as they are free to disagree with my comments on this.