The Summer Budget

The trip to China cost £6,000. That was for the 3 people. He was told that his bank a/c was building up and was asked if there was anything he wanted to do. China was the answer. All his money came from benefits.

I heard today that they are thinking of getting rid of ESA and putting everyone on it on JSA. The difference is quite substantial, and allows no acknowledgement of disability. A woman on the radio said that she has to drive everywhere, as she cannot walk. It does not allow for the extra expense. She said she might not be able to afford to get to work.

Gracesgran, your OP was not about disability benefits, it was about cutting benefits on the whole, or so I thought.

Anyone else heard the latest, that they are going to change the definition of poverty so that it does not include any reference to money?

Petra, my mother-in law had a lot more than that in her bank account when she went into a home, all through care allowance and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need. This was because she rarely spent anything, did not eat much, never drank anything other than tea or water, and did not go on holiday.

She's been in a home now for just over a year, and her house in on the market. She has been paying £1000 a week to the home, until it was decided that she needed nursing care.

Obviously everybody should be means tested, as far as some are concerned.

just read this.

theconversation.com/many-benefits-scroungers-are-hard-working-people-you-rely-on-for-your-care-44027

It puts the benefits budget in perspective.

Jen I do not want anyone to suffer, nor do I want all benefits to be means tested where it does not make sense to do so but taxing the ones which are not taxed does seem to have some sense to it as far as I can see. Rather than spitting at me "and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need" - which I certainly hadn't said - I am interested in people sharing what are the positives and negatives of anything that may happen - that is why I asked the question in the first place.

I refuse to set out with the belief that all that any one party does is bound to be bad although my views may be coloured by what I have seen in the past and, because of this, I do not see the Conservatives as being careful about those hurt by the changes they make and am concerned to know if this may be the case again.

I think they are floating a lot of "ideas" just to see the reaction and possibly manage expectation. I have just heard, on the news, that they are thinking of cutting the benefits cap further. It is already going to be reduced from £26,000 to £23,000 but this would take it down further. They have also said they are looking at cutting housing benefit.

" I refuse to set out the belief that all that any one party does is bound to be bad"
exactly GG there are good and bad policies to my mind with all of the parties, but some people just will not have that I'm afraid and see everything in black and white.

On the case of the man going on holiday to China with two carers! He certainly had too much money to spend , quite unbelievable, and glad that it won't be happening now , we hope.

You are jumping the gun a little rosesarered . What has been suggested is that disability benefits should be taxed - it hasn't actually happened yet. Obviously some would not pay tax as they still would not reach the tax threshold and might save very hard for a holiday and some people would be enabled to work and might then be able to save for a holiday. To be honest the question about going on a holiday is a little misleading. Should benefits be taxed? I don't know, but it is worth looking at. I am annoyed that we were not able to discuss this prior to the election. All we knew is that they would take £12 billion a year out of the benefits bill and now all these ideas are being floated.

We shall know next week of course.

Should it not be a matter of income being taxed irrespective of how it is derived? £20,000 im benefits must be as taxable as £20000 earned through work? Surely if the super rich and the massive multi nationals are made to contribute at appropriate levels that would be reasonable? If everyone paid their taxes (as assessed) live would be simpler all round.

Drat those typos!

GG said
We shall know next week of course.

shall we just wait and see

grannyonce!

I think that is probably the idea Jane10. However, the idea of the disability payments was that it cost you more to live and work with a disability - one article says £550 a month but that is just as annoying as not taking it the cost of disability into account at all as it must vary greatly - this was why they were not taxed originally. Perhaps there should be a higher tax level for disabled people to take this into account.

I suppose the question is, should I have to pay more to help myself with my disability if I have a higher income? I am not sure there is an easy answer so I would come down on the fence and say possibly.

Rather than spitting at me "and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need" -

Grace, that was directed at Petra, not you, because she thought the man should not have been allowed to use his benefits on a trip to China. The beginning of that sentence says, Petra, so why do you accuse me of spitting at you?

Yes GG. Why not have slightly different personal allowances for people with disabilities? Och its all so complicated! I'd expect to pay my own way until I needed financial help. Mainly by cutting my coat according to my cloth. I wouldn't expect expensive holidays (and I don't anyway!)

Having a spare £6000 is too much is it, roses?

I presume you know disabled people and wish them to be hidden away, rather than have a holiday in their lives, something nice to look back on when they are too disabled to get out of the house?
The fact that the man needed two carers to go with him should tell you something. Do you know, Petra, how long it took him to save up that £6000?
Sorry, forgot, he shouldn't have been allowed to.

And you say you aren't sarcastic, durhamjen...

Being oversensitive Jen - sorry. This thread didn't have a good start

However, the whole thing with benefits is that is isn't black and white; it is complicated. The whole benefits system has become incredibly complicated and most people don't have any idea how it works even if they have to use a bit of it. I think it is important that we discuss it to get some insight otherwise we have no idea how our money is being spent. I think it is really difficult to understand if neither you or anyone you know has been affected. Even if you are sympathetic - and most people are - some of the system that has "grown like Topsy" and doesn't make much sense.

I have no idea how long it took the man in question to save up £6,000.
There are many, many working people who would never be able to save that amount to spend on a holiday.

You might well have a reasonable point DJ but your reply can only be taken with the acceptance that not every person on disability benefits are, as you post time and time again, unable to keep warm, feed themselves let alone save money.

All that is being said on here is that disability claimants have varying wealth and asking should the benefit therefore be taxed , the same as once you gain your state pension your income is taxed accordingly.

Nobody on GN has ever said, thread after thread, that there are not people on disability benefits that need every penny they are entitled to.

I wish you would stop posting crass comments to those who don't agree with you silly comments such as having to wear sack cloth and ashes, it adds nothing to a debate.

Question

Mary Blogs was a cleaner , she has £5.000 in savings and is now on disability benefits as is Susan Smith who was an Olympic athlete and earned a million pounds which she has in various financial sources and gives her a very sizeable annual income. Should Mary and Susan both get the same benefit payment? If Susan wasn't claiming could Mary receive more benefit help because there was more money to be spent where genuinely needed? Should Susan not be taxed on ALL income received as others do who work and pay taxes. Mary would probably not pay tax as her disability benefits and savings combined are are below the threshold.

As Gracesgran says I think often ideas are "leaked" or rather floated in advance to test the possible reaction. So in that sense speculation is not quite as idle as it might seem. Have to say I find TV endless speculation tedious but I just switch off.
Osborne has said on several occasions that he wants to reduce the top rate of tax, so would not be surprised if he does that now. Whatever the economic thinking is behind such a move I think it sends out the wrong message when so many people are still struggling.

POGS you have said it all, so now I don't need to, thank you!

I don't know how long it took to save the £6,000. What I do know is that 10 years later he was conned out of £20,000 by a 'friend' because he was assessed as being able to live independently, very sad.

Good post POGS.